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Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite troop
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Author:  Zikken [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite troop
Im pretty new to the game and my first army im building is from Eregion & Rivendell faction.
Gil-Galad, Elrond, The twins, Erestor is just some really nice options they have for heroes.
My problem, as many others i read talking about this faction, is the warriors. They really puts it down.
I love the High elves warriors with elven blade, bow or spear and shield but something is missing...

I came up with this profile:
Guard of the Havens
Elves has been fighting hundreds of years against the dark powers.
With well-forged army and superier blades they went to war.
Amongst them all there is a few elves being picked out because of their skill and braveness.
The Guards Of the Havens are the few handpicked elves showing their worth in years of battle.
They are so swift and skillful that when you see them fight its looks like they dance through their battle.
With finely, strong heavy armor and 2 elven blades these warriors are the most fearsome of them all

Stats:
F: 5/3+
S: 4
D: 6
A: 2
W: 1
C: 5
Cost: 15 points

I got the inspiration from the Iron guard and Beserker.
Normal fight value. 4 in strengh to give the elves some more elite troops.
What do you think? I hope its not too unbalanced with f 5.
Author:  Arthas367 [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I like the idea of elite high elf troops ( or anything additional for high elves) .

But a strength 4, Defense 6, Corsair reaver is probably not the way forward.

Reavers are already considered detestable by some, and that's with str 3 and d4.

And under further consideration this is just a completely better Iron Guard for the same exact points

+1 move, +1 fight, +1 courage for the same exact cost.
Author:  Draugluin [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
Compared to Iron Guard, they gain 1F 1C 1" and Woodland Creature, but lose throwing weapons. That's should be a net +2 points over Iron Guard. Compared to Berserkers, they lose 2C and 2hw, gain 1F and Woodland Creature. As it is, Heavy Armor should only give them 5D, not 6, which would be better overall. Not as durable as some elites, but they still have 5F with 2 attacks.
Author:  Zikken [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
Okay if I rethink it.
Guard of the Havens
Cost: 15
F: 5/3+
S: 4
D: 6
A: 1
W: 1
C: 5


Wargear:
Heavy armor, shield and elven blade

Special Rules:
Woodland creature, Bodyguard


I dont wanna make these replace the elven warriors completely, just wanna give them an unit you can take to give some extra punch.
How much should +1 S and Bodyguard give? Im a just making them way to powerful?
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I think giving strength 4 to elves just shouldnt be done....

They are already powerful enough.

I think honestly what the High Elves could benefit from is not an elite warrior, but maybe a different sort of warrior......same way knights of rivendell still cost alot, arent superhuman, but are elite.....how about something a tiny bit different.

Maybe High Elves from a different period with a nice lore rule....I think something to make them more unique from one another.

I dont have a suggestion honestly....

Though....for example Mirkwood has Rangers, warriors, and Palace Guard. All with very definable different jobs.

How about High Elf Scout/Sentry? Pts cost: 9

5/3+ 3 4 1 1 5
Wargear: Noldorin Daggers, Elf bow, armor
Options: Horse-8 pts
Special Rules: Woodland Creature


This way you can provide unique light cavalry, or have cheaper archers with riskier defense for your army.

Two things they dont have....


As for your suggestion(last one) I think the points cost at 15 is fair. Thats one for everything and two for bodyguard.

At this point you have some ridiculously expensive warbands.....so I wouldnt mind playing you.
Author:  Zikken [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I like your idea with light cavarly and cheaper archer.
I kinda like to give them borh our options haha.
As you say they are expensive, but I think at them as Guars of the Galadhrim Court. You dont fill your warbands with them. Say like 2-3 per warband and that its.

What I want to do is to take out all the focus on the heroes, when they focus your heroes you have warriors chopping through aswell. With so many other S 4 D 6 it would be nice with atleast some matching it.

Back to the idea of your idea with mine, a warband could look like these:
High elf Captain
2 Guard of the Havens
5 High elves scout
5 High elves warrior with spear and shield

Its not accurate with bow limits but think you have another warband
This would be a kinda fun idea. You must think about your archers lower defense but also your elite can be a target.
Author:  Arthas367 [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I agree with Lordofthebrownring on this, strength 4 elves is somewhat hard to swallow, they are lithe, graceful and skilled, not sure we should infringe on one of the Dwarven uniqueness.

I think the noldorin idea he had is a good start (though with gildor we can have something comparable)

I'd consider expanding on the nolodorin dagger idea presented, giving the same rule as Erestor, making a assault infantry type unit that rerolls to wound with throwing weapons and in combat with said daggers, gives a more skilled wounding approach to just straight up adding str 4.


Maybe something along these lines:

Noldorin Weaponmaster 15 pts.
Wargear: Noldorin Throwing Daggers, Heavy Armor

F: 6
S: 3
D: 5
A: 2
W: 1
C: 5

Special Rules:
Nolodorin Throwing Daggers: as per Erestor
Preternatural Agility: as per Hasharin

Alternative Weaponmaster profile 14 pts

Wargear: Elven Blade, Throwing Daggers

F: 5
S: 3
D: 5
A: 2
W: 1
C: 5

Special Rules
Chop: as per Abrakhan Bodyguard.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
Overall guys from fighting high Elves and Elves in general dozens of times, they dont so much have a problem with strength as with ways to apply that strength.

The fight value of 5 beats most troops in the game and the defense 6 tacked onto that is a lot to take out for a lot of armies.....

I like the idea of throwing daggers, scouts, different units etc, but I dont like giving them chop, fight 6, and strength four.

They already dominate armies in fight, and tie heroes with regular troops almost across the board for regular armies. Giving them chop is way OP, and giving them two attacks is way OP.

I've cut through lines of Isengard with fury before with Reavers......and they are fight 5 strength 3 defense 4.

Plainly put while at the very least I shouldnt say your ideas cant be instituted, I think an even HIGHER points value is necessary. I've had games where my D 6 Strength 4 uruks had issues fighting close combat with Elves with armor.......

They need variety for fun, and for other tactics, but they dont need to be UPGRADED.
Author:  Zikken [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
The F 5 is great but with so many troops S 4 D 6 and most of them cheaper then the High elves I tend to see many complain about high elves not.competetive.
Too few units and other factions, doing what elves do better.
That 5+ on D 6 instead of a 6 is kinda important. Also you are often outnumbered as Elves.
I totally respect what you saying but what I think is confusing is that all the others I have talked to/read comments/disscusions, think its kind of a problem to have that kill potential with the high elves.
Even GBHL says they Eregion and Rivendell has great heroes but lack warriors.
And as Lothrolien and Mirkwood is the more skirmish type of the 2 faction, I like to see some more armoured oriental units in The E & R faction!
But hey, I have not right and I like to discuss :)
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
Zikken wrote:
The F 5 is great but with so many troops S 4 D 6 and most of them cheaper then the High elves I tend to see many complain about high elves not.competetive.
Too few units and other factions, doing what elves do better.
That 5+ on D 6 instead of a 6 is kinda important. Also you are often outnumbered as Elves.
I totally respect what you saying but what I think is confusing is that all the others I have talked to/read comments/disscusions, think its kind of a problem to have that kill potential with the high elves.
Even GBHL says they Eregion and Rivendell has great heroes but lack warriors.
And as Lothrolien and Mirkwood is the more skirmish type of the 2 faction, I like to see some more armoured oriental units in The E & R faction!
But hey, I have not right and I like to discuss :)


I dont disagree. But maybe the GBHL said what I meant.....the troops need more VARIETY, but not necessarily more elite units.

If you give them more expensive elites, you will have less soldiers too.

Thats why I suggested a scout type troop. I also agree they dont have enough types of troops.

High Elves....I played against them many times. I use Morannon Orcs, Uruk Hai, Hunter Orcs, a lot.

High elves still are hard to kill. Beating them in a fight is hard. You have to play very tactically with them.

The way I see high elves as a force playing a game, is the way they acted in middle earth.....they didnt often engage in combat, but they made their choices when and where and how to fight. Thats how you play high elves.
Author:  Arthas367 [ Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
At the end of the day, I'm still generally happy with high elves (which I play from time to time)

With noldorin exiles, High elves and Rivendell Cav, they might not be the most diverse army. But they have a good assortment of tools, and they posses some deadly heroes.

Have you considered just rounding out the HE with woodelves ? Under Gil they all fought as a unified elven race, you can really diversify when you put some thought into it, and really keep the fluff bill intact.
Author:  Zikken [ Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I like your idea of troops and your opinions about the high elves.
I understand I made them a little bit too OP with the f5 def 6, A2 and S4.
So here i made up some new ones. S3 both but really represent their realm, atleast for me! Check them out and help me improve!

Havens Guard
The Guard of the Haven is an old formed guard unit whose duty is to patroll the borders and keeping the roads open for travelers.

Guard of the Havens 8pts
F 5/3+
S: 3
D: 4
A: 1
W: 1
C: 5

Wargear: armour,

Options:
Spear
Elven blade
Shield
Elven bow


Eregion Veteran 12 pts
The realm of Eregion was famous for their crafting ability and was one of the few elven kingdoms trading with the dwarf of Khazad-dum.
It was here the rings were made but also finely made armour and weapons. A lot of the knowledge was lost when the realm fell in the war aginst Sauron and the few warriors who survived still carries their splendid armour and weapons, together with experience from all the wars they went through.
F6/3+
S: 3
D: 5
A: 1
W: 1
C: 5

Wargear: Heavy armour, Eregion blade.
Eregion blade: Eregion blade is a finely crafted sword. When feinting with Eregion blade you do not suffer from the usual loss of fighting value.


Option: shield


What you think about these two?
I try to represent the different kingdoms of Havens and Eregion.
Now I gave them the option for cheap archers, an elite unit which cost more but still str 3.
I was thinking of giving them very heavy armour, so they had def 6 without shield, to show the skill of Eregion crafting. You think I made right decision to take ot down to def 5 with option for shield?

As for the Havens I wanted to something pateolling the boards, if you guard the boards in thw woods etc you maybe just want a bow. When you patrolling the road you want shield and spear or sword so I gave them all options!
Author:  LordElrond [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
Or you could change the King's guard upgrade or make a new similar one to cost 4 or 5 points extra for an extra attack
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
I cant speak so much for high elves as I have just started using them, but from my experience fighting them, they are already pretty elite. Them and their heroes. In fact, I would argue a careful placement of the elves' favorite spell, nature's wrath, will turn all of your elves into elite units as the vicitms of nature's wrath fall prone (double strikes) not to mention take a str 2 hit if you channel the spell, and archery of str 3 to boot.

Don't get me wrong, the profiles I've seen look creative and exciting, IMHO, the elves have plenty of elite things they can already do, it just isn't as obvious as many of the other cultures.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving High elves ( Eregion & Rivendell ) a more elite t
But that's the thing with the high elves. Nature's wrath does not come as easily as it does to the Lothlorien and Mirkwood forces. Arwen is very much a one trick pony and is pretty much useless once she is out of will, whereas the Galadhrim Stormcaller has this ability and can get his will back and has another spell, call winds, which at first glance looks awful, but can be used to knock important enemy models to the ground, or to just take the completely out of the game. Elrond is the only other option for nature's wrath, and while he is undoubtedly awesome, he can be completely ruined by a single sap will, whereas Thranduil costs basically half as much and doesn't have this terrible weakness.
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