The One Ring :: View topic - Alternatives to GW miniatures?

Click to: Show

Bilbo wrote:

Yes, I see no place for historical miniature used in the Strategy Battle Game.

hmmm...

Bilbo wrote:

Yes, I see no place for historical miniature used in my Lord of the Rings SBG games.

.

There you go, fixed that for you.

Quote:

Tolkien has clear influences on his work some of which are historical, many are mythological or even religious, but however strong, they are influences used to create fictional characters and peoples. He has in no way cut and pasted any historical people or persons into his work!

And just when did I say Tolkien copy & pasted historical cultures verbatim into the LOTR? I actually said... "the Rohirrim are essentially Anglo Saxons with a strong equine culture". Not that they're exactly the same, copied verbatim from history.

But you cannot deny that the Rohirrim are heavily based on the Anglo Saxons. From their weaponry, armour, combat doctrine and culture, even down to the language Tolkien invented for them relying heavily on Old English.In fact, of all the races and cultures in the LOTR, they are probably the closest to their real world inspiration.

Quote:

I have no problem with scratch built miniatures created as characters etc from some ones imagination/interpretation from reading the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit which are essentially fantasy, because they are using Lord of the Rings miniatures, not something else!

Yeah, sure, because everyone has the time, skills and resources to scratch build their own models.

And besides, what would be wrong with taking Historical models and converting them to better resemble the Rohirrim? The Gripping Beast Saxon Thegns I mentionted, would work every well with the addition of greenstuffed cloaks, and equine imagery - freehand designs of horses painted onto shields and banners.

Who knows, maybe I'll do this myself once I've cleared my backlog, and I feel confident enough in my conversion skills.

Why do you such a severe aversion to using miniatures from non GW ranges, whatever the circumstances?

Quote:

In the same way that the fictional Empire in Star Wars were as George Lucas has said, heavily influenced by the Nazi's, even having their basic troops called Storm Troopers, I would not expect to include their historical influences as a viable stand in.

Ah, you and your absurd hyperbolic examples...Theres no way I would have even considered doing that, because you know...Nazi soldiers do not actually look like Imperial Stormtroopers.

Quote:

Reversing the situation, I would not expect to field my rangers of Gondor in a re enactment of the battle of Hastings!

Well no. Neither would I. Because Rangers of Gondor do not remotely look like Anglo Saxons or Normans..

Using Nazi's as Imperial Stormtroopers, and Rangers of Gondor as Norman archers are a long, long way from using say, Anglo Saxon miniatures (who wear "chain"-mail, wield large shields axes spears and swords and fight in dense Shield Wall formations)...as Rohirrim (who also wear "chain"-mail, wield large shields axes spears and swords and fight in dense Shield Wall formations...what a surprise...).

Arguing with you over these sorts of things is like arguing with a colourblind person who can only see in Black and White.

You attitude always seems to be (IMO) "you must not deviate from my narrow vision of what is acceptable in the Lord of the Rings SBG. Scratch your own models. Don't ever/i] use historical miniatures, because they're not pure enough to use in a fantasy universe."

Whether my interpretation of your position ^ is right or wrong, thats how I'm interpreting it. So surely you can see why I get so riled up whenever argue about things you and Southern Dunedain et al. think other players shouldn't do [i]with their own miniature collections.

Author:	ElfLover [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:11 am ]
Post subject:	Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Hello I was just wondering what alternative LOTR models are available outside GW that are about the same size as the GW ones ?

Author:	SouthernDunedain [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
no decent ones as GW hold the only license to make film/ book based minis. there are lots of fantasy ranges out there that apparently look similar to LotR but I refuse to even look on the grounds I couldn't use them in GW and their tournaments. Waste of money imo.

Author:	Fishlegs [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
It depends on how you play. A large number of people on this site don't play tournaments and wouldn't ever game in a GW store. If you fall into this category then there are lots of high quality historical and fantasy miniatures available. In terms of scale, Perry Miniatures are usually a perfect fit as the Perrys sculpted a large amount of the LOTR range. Gripping Beast, Warlord Games, Wargames Factory + many others can be used to good effect.

Author:	Bilbo [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
I see no reason why you shouldn't collect, paint and game with non Berk-Shop miniatures, though they generally do not fit in with the look of the official product. Also, they play havoc with the WYSIWYG rule!

Author:	Pindergorn [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Anglo Saxons & Anglo Danes = Rohan. Goths = Rhovanion / Eotheod. Vikings, Norse, Danes = Dunlendings. Huns, Mongols = warriors of Khand, and/or Warriors of Dale. With conversion work, all manner of historical miniatures can be made to resemble Orcs (add fur cloaks and clothing, make their clothing look ragged, twist their facial features into the hideous visage of an Orc etc). They won't resemble the aesthetic style of official GW models nor the movies very well, but they're still consistent with the (broad and vague) descriptions of characters and cultures given by Tolkien himself in the books. Rohirrim in particular, are essentially Anglo Saxons reimagined with a strong equine culture (IIRC Tolkien believed the Anglo Saxons would have won the Battle of Hastings if they'd had a strong cavalry force to match the Normans'). Good manufacturers to consider... Gripping Beast. Musketeer Miniatures. Wargames Factory. Ebob Miniatures. Old Glory Miniatures. Foundry Miniatures. Perry Miniatures.

The One Ring http://www.one-ring.co.uk/

Alternatives to GW miniatures? http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=25499	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Nevinsrip [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Elf Lover, Check out my stuff on the WIP pages. I have 6 or 7 pages of non GW models that I converted into LOTR troops. Take a look.

Author:	ElfLover [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Nevinsrip- Will Do Thanks to everyone for your help

Author:	Jobu [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
So I purchased some mini's from Thunderbolt mountain ( old ral partha sculptor ) I posted up a comparison shot on my groups blog but wanted to post it here too. The Byzantine warriors with spear and shield, along with some GW and one Red Box Games mini.

Author:	ElfLover [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Thanks Jobu I found that Mithril Miniatures release great miniatures which actually are meant to be Lord of the Rings characters!

Author:	Pindergorn [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Gripping Beast has recently announced their latest plastic kit - Dark Age Warriors. These look great and will be suitable for a whole range of armies. Historical - Anglo Saxons, Vikings, possibly Irish Welsh and Scottish, Dark Age Germans. In Lord of the Rings, they should be suitable for the Rohirrim, Dunlendings and perhaps Gondorian Fiefdoms (if using houseruled profiles). Quote: Dark Age Warriors New From GBP! Available at SALUTE'13 (20th April) and on the web-site that weekend. We will be taking pre-orders for collection at Salute so if you want to secure a box (or more!) please email us. £20 a box. Any mix of three boxes of plastics (Hirdmen, Thegns or Warriors), £53 Any five boxes. £85. They also have plastic kits for armoured Saxon Thegns and Viking Hirdmen. If the quality of their previous gives any indication, this new kit will be fantastic. The kits are very poseable multi part plastics (torso+legs, head, left and right arms with attached weapons, head, shield, extra weapons (attached to hands, not arms) and various details (scabbard, seax, banners, cloaks). Click to: Show

Author:	SidTheSloth [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
On a similar topic, Would anyone happen to have any scale pictures of Perry's War of the roses 'bills and bows'? With the way things are at the moment 40 miniatures for £18 is looking more and more attractive...

Author:	Fin [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
SidTheSloth wrote: With the way things are at the moment 40 miniatures for £18 is looking more and more attractive... Don't have a scale picture and wouldn't recommend using those for LotR. As a historian, it would make my heart bleed. There are lots of great Dark Age alternatives.

Author:	SidTheSloth [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Fin wrote: SidTheSloth wrote: With the way things are at the moment 40 miniatures for £18 is looking more and more attractive... Don't have a scale picture and wouldn't recommend using those for LotR. As a historian, it would make my heart bleed. There are lots of great Dark Age alternatives. Why? Surely LoTR in the real world would be possibly within quite a broad range of time? Which sort of time period do you think LoTR was based around? (sorry for so many questions)

Author:	Bilbo [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
SidTheSloth wrote: Fin wrote: SidTheSloth wrote: With the way things are at the moment 40 miniatures for £18 is looking more and more attractive... Don't have a scale picture and wouldn't recommend using those for LotR. As a historian, it would make my heart bleed. There are lots of great Dark Age alternatives. Why? Surely LoTR in the real world would be possibly within quite a broad range of time? Which sort of time period do you think LoTR was based around? (sorry for so many questions) I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! Personally I felt time period wise that the mythical time of Aragorn and the war of the ring is equivalent to the middle English period (hence middle earth!) dark ages that Tolkien lamented the loss of literature and oral tradition that was largely erased by the Norman conquest. Elendil's Numenoreans are pretty much Rome and the Elves are the ancient Greeks with Faery magic thrown in! The loss of Numenor is approximate to the loss of Atlantis.

Page 1 of 4	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	SouthernDunedain [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! ''See Mr Frodo, there is some good in this world...and it's worth fighting for'' Well said Bilbo.

Author:	Fin [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! Well, depends on your reference for an authentic picture of Middle-earth... If you prefer the movies, you should of course stick to GW. If you prefer what the Professor wrote in his books, you will find, that PJ is the one who wears the football boots. I don't say to buy some Teutonic Knights and call them Rohirrim, but I have much fun in trying to recreate the original ideas of the Professor... Just to give you an idea: http://jomada-adventures.blogspot.de/20 ... peace.html @Sid: Anything of the Hastings period and the Dark Ages is presumably much closer to Middle-earth. Bilbo gave a great overview on some of the models that can be found in Tolkien's ideas.

Author:	Bilbo [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
Fin wrote: Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! Well, depends on your reference for an authentic picture of Middle-earth... If you prefer the movies, you should of course stick to GW. If you prefer what the Professor wrote in his books, you will find, that PJ is the one who wears the football boots. I don't say to buy some Teutonic Knights and call them Rohirrim, but I have much fun in trying to recreate the original ideas of the Professor... Just to give you an idea: http://jomada-adventures.blogspot.de/20 ... peace.html @Sid: Anything of the Hastings period and the Dark Ages is presumably much closer to Middle-earth. Bilbo gave a great overview on some of the models that can be found in Tolkien's ideas. I have to say that I admire your skill at painting and modelling! I am hal way through painting my Trolls, and after seeing your website banner, I feel like a man (Circa year 2000) who has just bought a brand new Rover only to stare at his neighbour brand new Jaguar! There are occasional but definite descriptions used in Tolkien's works though they leave a great deal for interpretation and the imagination of the reader/listener in the tradition of the poems of Edda. Peter Jackson and Weta have used a degree of artistic licence necessary in making a Hollywood Block Buster, which will naturally differ from each individuals expectations and personal academic sensibilities! I personally find that my admiration for people converting and sculpting based upon their own interpretations an acceptable gaming solution, but personally like to see it stand separately form the Peter Jackson/G.W. vision on the tabletop. I was for a time considering collecting Mithril LOTR for that purpose.

Author:	Pindergorn [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
SouthernDunedain wrote: Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! ''See Mr Frodo, there is some good in this world...and it's worth fighting for'' Well said Bilbo. So you would only ever use Gamesworkshop's models to play their games? Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! Personally I felt time period wise that the mythical time of Aragorn and the war of the ring is equivalent to the middle English period (hence middle earth!) dark ages that Tolkien lamented the loss of literature and oral tradition that was largely erased by the Norman conquest. Elendil's Numenoreans are pretty much Rome and the Elves are the ancient Greeks with Faery magic thrown in! The loss of Numenor is approximate to the loss of Atlantis. Wait, so you hate seeing Historical miniatures used for Lord of the Rings...But you also think that Middle Earth and its races/cultures are directly comparable to real world time periods and cultures? Click to: Show

Author:	Bilbo [ Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
King Ondoher wrote: SouthernDunedain wrote: Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! ''See Mr Frodo, there is some good in this world...and it's worth fighting for'' Well said Bilbo. So you would only ever use Gamesworkshop's models to play their games? Bilbo wrote: I have to say that I hate seeing Historical miniatures on a Lord of the Rings Table. You don't wear football boots on a cricket pitch! Personally I felt time period wise that the mythical time of Aragorn and the war of the ring is equivalent to the middle English period (hence middle earth!) dark ages that Tolkien lamented the loss of literature and oral tradition that was largely erased by the Norman conquest. Elendil's Numenoreans are pretty much Rome and the Elves are the ancient Greeks with Faery magic thrown in! The loss of Numenor is approximate to the loss of Atlantis. Wait, so you hate seeing Historical miniatures used for Lord of the Rings...But you also think that Middle Earth and its races/cultures are directly comparable to real world time periods and cultures? Yes, I see no place for historical miniature used in the Strategy Battle Game. Tolkien has clear influences on his work some of which are historical, many are mythological or even religious, but however strong, they are influences used to create fictional characters and peoples. He has in no way cut and pasted any historical people or persons into his work! I have no problem with scratch built miniatures created as characters etc from some ones imagination/interpretation from reading the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit which are essentially fantasy, because they are using Lord of the Rings miniatures, not something else! In the same way that the fictional Empire in Star Wars were as George Lucas has said, heavily influenced by the Nazi's, even having their basic troops called Storm Troopers, I would not expect to include their historical influences as a viable stand in. Reversing the situation, I would not expect to field my rangers of Gondor in a re enactment of the battle of Hastings!

Author:	Pindergorn [ Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
I've put my response to Bilbo in a spoiler because we're going off topic here. If you care to read it, then open the spoiler. If not, then ignore it. Click to: Show Bilbo wrote: Yes, I see no place for historical miniature used in the Strategy Battle Game. hmmm... Bilbo wrote: Yes, I see no place for historical miniature *used in my Lord of the Rings SBG games. . There you go, fixed that for you. Quote:* Tolkien has clear influences on his work some of which are historical, many are mythological or even religious, but however strong, they are influences used to create fictional characters and peoples. He has in no way cut and pasted any historical people or persons into his work! And just when did I say Tolkien copy & pasted historical cultures verbatim into the LOTR? I actually said... "the Rohirrim are essentially Anglo Saxons with a strong equine culture". Not that they're exactly the same, copied verbatim from history. But you cannot deny that the Rohirrim are heavily based on the Anglo Saxons. From their weaponry, armour, combat doctrine and culture, even down to the language Tolkien invented for them relying heavily on Old English.In fact, of all the races and cultures in the LOTR, they are probably the closest to their real world inspiration. Quote: I have no problem with scratch built miniatures created as characters etc from some ones imagination/interpretation from reading the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit which are essentially fantasy, because they are using Lord of the Rings miniatures, not something else! Yeah, sure, because everyone has the time, skills and resources to scratch build their own models. And besides, what would be wrong with taking Historical models and converting them to better resemble the Rohirrim? The Gripping Beast Saxon Thegns I mentionted, would work every well with the addition of greenstuffed cloaks, and equine imagery - freehand designs of horses painted onto shields and banners. Who knows, maybe I'll do this myself once I've cleared my backlog, and I feel confident enough in my conversion skills. Why do you such a severe aversion to using miniatures from non GW ranges, whatever the circumstances? Quote: In the same way that the fictional Empire in Star Wars were as George Lucas has said, heavily influenced by the Nazi's, even having their basic troops called Storm Troopers, I would not expect to include their historical influences as a viable stand in. Ah, you and your absurd hyperbolic examples...Theres no way I would have even considered doing that, because you know...Nazi soldiers do not actually look like Imperial Stormtroopers. Quote: Reversing the situation, I would not expect to field my rangers of Gondor in a re enactment of the battle of Hastings! Well no. Neither would I. Because Rangers of Gondor do not remotely look like Anglo Saxons or Normans.. Using Nazi's as Imperial Stormtroopers, and Rangers of Gondor as Norman archers are a long, long way from using say, Anglo Saxon miniatures (who wear "chain"-mail, wield large shields axes spears and swords and fight in dense Shield Wall formations)...as Rohirrim (who also wear "chain"-mail, wield large shields axes spears and swords and fight in dense Shield Wall formations...what a surprise...). Arguing with you over these sorts of things is like arguing with a colourblind person who can only see in Black and White. You attitude always seems to be (IMO) "you must not deviate from my narrow vision of what is acceptable in the Lord of the Rings SBG. Scratch your own models. Don't ever/i] use historical miniatures, because they're not pure enough to use in a fantasy universe." Whether my interpretation of your position ^ is right or wrong, thats how I'm interpreting it. So surely you can see why I get so riled up whenever argue about things you and Southern Dunedain et al. think other players shouldn't do [i]with their own miniature collections. The OP asked for suggestions for alternative miniatures to GW's over priced and declining quality miniatures. Regardless of how much you might loathe the idea; certain Historical Miniatures, particularly Dark Age Saxons, Vikings and Normans, ARE suitable for use in the LOTR SBG. More so if you convert them to better resemble the LOTR (giving Saxon Thegns greenstuffed cloaks, equine imagery on their shields and banners and using a similar colour scheme to tie them into the film imagery). Like it or not, this is what I and many other people are doing with their own collections of miniatures. Thats the last I'm going to say on this, because DMS will get his knickers in a twist when he reads this.