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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:25 pm 
Loremaster
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I agree on the points above, but you make too light of them - Galadhrim aren't "pretty good", they're worse then WoMT for double the price. The only thing I would add is that it's not even their low defense which really breaks elvendom, it's low strength. Being a glass hammer is not bad, so long as the hammer actually does some damage.

@Whoelsebuthaldir: I should bloody well hope Guardians of Caras Galadhon can rip apart Warg Riders. For a single company of Guardians (incl. legendary cost), I can have 2 formations of Wargs (@ 3 coy).

On the Elven bunker: I'd kill it with Saruman, Druzhag, Kardush, Khamul, Betrayer and Arbalesters. They don't stand a chance.

My tip for elves would be: Get a 6 coy Galadhrim unit, add Galadriel (Lady) and Epic Defense each turn. You now have a hard center unit. Then get Wood elf archers with Thranduil and Haldir, a unit of Wood Elves with Gimli in them for Epic Rage, and ally in KoMT. The Knights and Wood Elf foot deal out damage, Galadriel's unit takes shots, and your Wood Elves act as bases of fire for Epic Shots and magic. And make up Rare slots to take High Elf Cohorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:29 pm 
Elven Warrior
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What would you elven bunker look like? You seem more experienced in that area than me 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:58 am 
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I'd just not make one - it's one of those lists that can absolutely murder an unprepared foe, but once he's felt it once, it's easily countered. And aside from that, I can't imagine it's much fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:06 am 
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I'm guessing an 'elven bunker' is a formation of wood elves supported by Radagast.
The key to it is keeping the enemy away from you as long as possible.
*The wood elves are protected long range thanks to their enchanted cloaks, and if they're in defensible terrain, all the better.
*Radagast will spend his time casting Call Winds, Entangle, and Guide Arrows to keep the enemy at bay for as long as possible while using Guide Arrows to improve the elves' shooting even further (if you roll a six on this spell you can effectively have a shoot value of 1, giving you an added 4 dice on top of whatever you already have)
*If the enemy does get close enough to charge, Radagast calls an Epic Tranquility, meaning no one can charge the elven formation that turn.
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:46 pm 
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That one could even be countered by a normal army - Radagast only has 3 might, so charge four times (it's not like elf shooting is actually going to hurt heavy, cheap infantry). You need Galadriel to "make" might using Touched by Destiny and the appropriate epic (what's it called again?). Then you add in Haldir, Legolas and Thranduil for Epic and Crippling Shot, and spend the rest of your points on extra heroes.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:02 am 
Elven Warrior
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For a bunker unit, are wood elves better because of their cloaks? Or are high elf archers actually (finally) better? because of their higher defence.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:06 am 
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I'd go with High Elves, because your enemy is going to get in short range sooner or later, and then Wood Elves are dead meat.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:53 pm 
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I've been playing wotr since early march, and though my first love within Tolkien is with the elves, and though I am putting together an elven army,I do think you would have to be very daring to rely on them as your main army. I believe that the balancing of elves could be achievable simply by bumping up their defence- as all the armoured elves clearly look like they are wearing heavy armour (+2 defence) and that coupled with the other high stats might just be understandable in the high cost. However, since this thread is tactics based rather than house rule (of which I have other ideas) I shall leave it there.
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:26 am 
Elven Warrior
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The problem with elves is that they are slightly overcosted, not that they have low defence. The defence problem can be solved with Epic heroes in the list using epic defence, there is a reason they have so many heroes with that epic ability.
Having said that, the reason that the elves cost so much is because the writers seem to have...overvalued the fight characteristic on formations. When defence and strength are the most important ones, the others come into play but not as much as these two.

Take for example, a formation of two companies of galadhrim with shields, and their equivalent points value in moranon orcs with shields, which is a 4 company formation.
That is a 2:1 ratio for the orcs and they are being wounded on a 6 and wounding the elves on a 5. Do you see the problem? Sure the elves will have an extra 6 attacks, possibly even 12 because of a failed terror test, but the extra attacks won't equal the same amount of wounds as an extra company could.
Maybe I'm crazy, but if the formations in the elven list reduce their price by 5-15 points they might become more playable.
Still though, I'll keep playing them because I love them.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:40 pm 
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I would happily houserule them to be a lower cost, I was just trying to think of other ways of equalising them. One of the chaps that I play with suggested the house rule of having glaives be two-handed weapons - but not have them have the -1 fight value. It's a simple change, but it could be enough to give them back the edge. I'm of the opinion that glaives are two handed anyway (am I right in saying they are so in SBG?) since there are so many models that are positioned using them in this manner.
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:43 am 
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Interestingly, I've just been examining Gildor's Household, and either it's way undercosted, or the original wood elves were over costed. It seems like five points has gone amiss somewhere, because Gildor's Household has longbows and a higher fight value, and yet is cheaper than normal wood elves.

Can anyone explain this?
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:11 pm 
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It's because you have to pay the higher cost for the command company
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:54 pm 
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I'm not sure that makes sense though, considering that doesn't happen with any of the other legendary companies?
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:07 pm 
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I think I vaguely remember it was FAQ'd.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:58 pm 
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In the FAQ it is explained that the Command company is not costed with the actual company in mind. So, to put it simply in an example, you'd pay 120 for the command which consists of the character and usually a banner, and then on top of that the company themselves (for example 30 pts.)
So, if you were to have 3 companies of a legendary formation, you would pay:
120 (command company)
60 pts (3x companies)
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Yup

(Thinks I recognise who Ellorindar is ;) )

The initial cost is for Thee hero and command options. and special abilities. often they price it at about 25 points/Might point for the hero, plus the extras for banners etc.

Gildor's household isn't too bad. (For a Legendary formation, usually they are very bad choices - thinking of the isengard options generally for example like Vrasku's talons) But compare what you get with Thranduil + banner (160 points) plus companies of woodelves.

Thranduil has more might and epic actions etc, but Gildor's elves have 1 higher fight than standard elvies. (Gildor gets magic as well as Thranduil)

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:03 pm 
Elven Warrior
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What battlehosts do you guys consider to be the best? I have had some experience with them, and I'm just wondering if they are worth it most of the time.

I love Haldirs Archers battlehost when facing uruks it is extremely useful and damaging. But other than that I have not used any others that come to mind.
I have fought the Gorgaroth horde a few times, and though it is big and intimidating, it is slow moving and hard to manoeuvre, but if you want something to attract a lot of attention this isn't a bad choice.

I have also heard that the Nazgul battle host is very good but have never seen it in action.

Anyway, what's everyone's thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Haldir's Archers hurts when you're playing against Isengard, but is useless when your opponent brings something else.

The Gorgoroth Horde is another nail in the coffin of non-mordor armies. Khamul can now reflect the hits off 18 companies of Orcs, The Betrayer can make 18 companies re-roll their failed hits, etc. etc. I think this is the best host. If not, then the Winged Nazgul. Swoop over your enemies lines, hammer them with dismay and darkness, and kill half a formation a turn without even entering melee. If you get caught, though, you're in trouble.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Telchar wrote:
Haldir's Archers hurts when you're playing against Isengard, but is useless when your opponent brings something else.


I don't really get what you mean by that? Haldirs elves legendary formation only has the take aim special rule? nothing special against uruks :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:34 pm 
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There is a battlehost which is basically haldir's elves and it gives a bonus when shooting isengard uruk-hai.

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