War of the Ring 2 ed?

IM A ENT!!! · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:34 pm

Hello everybody

I love my WOTR, its my favourite GW game, sadly I haven't played for possibly a year, and even then it was like just one game.

Anyway, does anybody think its possible that with the release of the third and last hobbit film next year, that GW will do a WOTR 2ed?

I'm sure you'd all be keen for that, yes?

Please tell me how likely you think this is?

Thankyou.

JamesR · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:53 pm

I kind of hope so, to add to the game (although I almost never play WOTR mostly SBG) but I doubt it personally, GW seems to have distanced themselves from the game entirely

IM A ENT!!! · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:14 pm

Yes, your quite right they have. sigh. such good memories. Oh well never know they might do it because of the battle for five armies in the third film! Im not worried about the current ed of the WOTR rulebook, its a great book for a 1st ed, they did a very good job, the reason why I want to see this happen tho is to increase WOTR and LOTR popularity

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

Who knows what they will do.. they distanced themselves entirely from Sbg for a year when they pushed WotR hard...

I think they must do something for the attack of Dol Guldur, and the Battle of the Five Armies, but I am sanguine that it is a (much needed) 2nd ed WotR or even a modified update of their old 15mm battle of the Five armies Box game based on the Warmaster Rules.

The marketing and positioning of the Hobbit materials seems aimed more at the younger and new players. I would think there would be *something* to extend the core SBG into something more grandiose, but (unfortunately) stopping short of a full Mass-Battle ruleset or update. So pure guesswork is maybe there will be some large module book / extended ruleset to link a number of sbg scenarios into a larger whole (the results of each affecting subsequent ones like a small section of the battle, like scenes from the movie.. the gate, fighting in the ruins of dale, along the river running, the heights where bilbo hides out with the elven reserves, and the attack of Bolg... (sorry.. Azog seeing as PJ rewrote that..) and the charge of Beorn.

That said.... I would *reeeeally* like an updated Mass battle Set a la WotR.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:26 am

I personally feel that GW developed WOTR as part of a strategy to sell vast amounts of plastic miniatures, which really did not take off. There sales and marketing strategy is now to sell small amounts of miniatures at very high prices. Purchasing armies of miniatures from the Hobbit range in the quantities required for WOTR is now pretty much unthinkable for the majority of players.

It would of course be good if they released some rules and 15 slot movement tray for Thorin's company with Bilbo and Gandalf, which I suspect is cloud cuckoo land.

Killerkatanas · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:52 am **Posts:** 178

Really? Well it sure worked on me!

I have over 6,000 painted LOTR figures now and have every army in the book, including a large sharky's Ruffians force for WOTR.

Brian

JamesR · **Posted:** Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:21 am

Bilbo wrote:

I personally feel that GW developed WOTR as part of a strategy to sell vast amounts of plastic miniatures, which really did not take off. There sales and marketing strategy is now to sell small amounts of miniatures at very high prices. Purchasing armies of miniatures from the Hobbit range in the quantities required for WOTR is now pretty much unthinkable for the majority of players.

It would of course be good if they released some rules and 15 slot movement tray for Thorin's company with Bilbo and Gandalf, which I suspect is cloud cuckoo land.

That's what I always thought too, but I found it odd that they cut the pack sizes in half so soon after releasing WOTR. Seems counter-productive.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:55 pm

JamesR wrote:

Bilbo wrote:

I personally feel that GW developed WOTR as part of a strategy to sell vast amounts of plastic miniatures, which really did not take off. There sales and marketing strategy is now to sell small amounts of miniatures at very high prices. Purchasing armies of miniatures from the Hobbit range in the quantities required for WOTR is now pretty much unthinkable for the majority of players.

It would of course be good if they released some rules and 15 slot movement tray for Thorin's company with Bilbo and Gandalf, which I suspect is cloud cuckoo land.

That's what I always thought too, but I found it odd that they cut the pack sizes in half so soon after releasing WOTR. Seems counter-productive.

As much as I like the game, it was pretty much an unmitigated disaster sales wise.

They then changed there marketing strategy to try selling a small amount if miniatures at a premium price, and to cut costs by producing all new miniatures and popular lines in plastic or fine cast rather than metal.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:47 pm

[quote="Killerkatanas"]Really? Well it sure worked on me!

I have over 6,000 painted LOTR figures now and have every army in the book, including a large sharky's Ruffians force for WOTR.

Hi KK,

That sounds like serious dedication, I too am able to field sizeable armies for WOTR, but I have to say that I prefer being able to spend more time on producing better painted miniatures, rather than speed painting vast quantities.

It would be great to see images of some of your units, in particular your sharky's ruffians?

IM A ENT!!! · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:47 pm

Killerkatanas wrote:

Really? Well it sure worked on me!

I have over 6,000 painted LOTR figures now and have every army in the book, including a large sharky's Ruffians force for WOTR.

Brian

Um...excuse me... wow, that's amazing! Please never get rid of that collection and if you do give it to a LOTR fan. Unfortunately for GW there is only a select few people that have a collection of that figure.

Bilbo wrote:

I personally feel that GW developed WOTR as part of a strategy to sell vast amounts of plastic miniatures, which really did not take off.

Yes... there doesn't seem to be another reason why GW created the game of WOTR (well their version). Profits and money of course drive GW to do everything, but it was an appropriate game for the books and films at the same time, as is SBG.

So, in the books and films there were small skirmishes and large epic battles (my fav is the epic battles and so is WOTR game)

daersalon wrote:

The marketing and positioning of the Hobbit materials seems aimed more at the younger and new players...That said.... I would *reeeeally* like an updated Mass battle Set a la WotR.

[/quote]

I agree with both your points, the hobbit im afraid I don't like as much as regular SBG, im not into the whole "Troll throwing a body 5inches thing " and all the other extras the Hobbit brought. Like I said at the start of the discussion im also reeeeaallly keen for WOTR 2ed or something

because I love LOTR, and to be honest I don't want to just play 40k (and yes I have two small 1000 point 40k armies and I play on a less than regular basis) and I feel like 40k is the only option for some reason.

Anyway GW did a great job with WOTR when it came out, it had balance issues as most WOTR players knew (and abused :oops:

) it had some spelling mistakes (Castellans of Dol Guldur entry page 159 of WOTR "one to tree companies" :lol:

but it was a great set of rules and I thought for a first ed book it had few flaws.

one more thing, somebody mentioned how hard it would be to get back into WOTR if they did do a 2ed or something because of the nasty boxing changes, with regard to price and number of figures, so that is something which may deter people collecting a massed LOTR force unfortunately

Rangefinder · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:50 pm

I am totally in favor of a 2nd edition.
Even if nobody in the United States runs games for WOTR!!!

In order to really put WOTR back realm of affordability, I have decided to proxy ad infinitum the required models.

I will fill out the front of all formations with the appropriate model.
The rest of the companies, will be filled with beans! (uncooked)

Seriously, there is just no way.

I have a 5,000 point army of Harad & Easterlings with 3 Mumakil.
All of them non-proxy. Bought before the split + increa$e.

The idea of duplicating this for the forces of good are extremely daunting.

IM A ENT!!! · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:12 am

Yes, GW would probably have to change the box sizes for WOTR 2ed to be successful I think, I don't think people will buy that much. That's why WOTR 2ed may not be a good idea, but a GW employee told me that he thinks they would move back to WOTR for the last movie of the Hobbit, because of the battle of 5 armies. anyway, there is no evidence yet , this is just all ideas.

Harfoot · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:55 am

agree with the need for a 2nd edition rule set, especially to balance the different factions out, ie the weakness of Elfs compared to the strength of Isengard.

I play WOTR most weeks, mainly with/against daersalon who has posted above. We have made are own "Codex" of rule changes to try and iron out so of the rules and they work well.

Killerkatanas, do you think Ruffians are to cheap at 10points? they all have bows!

Leonardis · **Joined:** Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:06 pm **Posts:** 891

I love WotR, it's the whole reason I got into Lotr! Loved the book and the scenes, but sadly I think GWS were trying to buy time and get people to spend more money on their figures. I agree that I can't see that building an army is feasible with the cost of 12 figures... I personally would love a second edition... But I doubt it :-(

I really must get a WotR match in!

Killerkatanas · **Joined:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:52 am **Posts:** 178

Bilbo:

There are listings, and some photos of my stuff and some games I have done, here on this forum in the section "My armies getting out of control."
I have not updated it recently, and my forces continue to grow. I only have Dale to do now, but I have been waiting to see if additional stuff comes out, like banners and horn-blowers, so that I do not have to convert any.

Yes, the Ruffians are cheap, but they will only be used in games that involve my hobbits, who equally have cheap bows.

Rangefinder:

Dude, I'm in the USA, but located in California. It would be great to find more dedicated gamers, but the closure of the Bunker killed that. I have a small group now that meets irregularly, so I only get in about one game a month.

A real shame since I have so many figs. Oh, and BTW, I have 6 Mumakil.

Brian

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:38 pm

I could see GW publishing a 2nd Ed of WotR, or at least an updated paperback extension for the new forces, when the second or third Hobbit film comes out. But I highly doubt they would do any package changes. They have never shown any intention of making model purchases more cost effective. They may hold changes for a while, but they won't make it any easier or cheaper for the players to get models than exists now. We may always gripe about how it is compared to 3, 5, 10 years ago when we got into this game, but the sad fact is what we have right now is still going to be better than what we have tomorrow, however far out tomorrow is.

Thankfully (sadly) GW's policies and the tendencies of some gamers to jump around means there's almost always models available on the secondary market and these can often be had at a bargain. I got two Mumuks, still in sealed boxes, (taking me to 3 total) a couple years ago for just $25 each. I recently picked up about 40 goblins and 30 dwarves dirt cheap, most unpainted or just primed, from someone that wants 'current armies'.

As for WotR itself, I agree that for a first edition it was a pretty good try. I would have liked to see a second edition as well just to see what GW comes up with. I personally think magic was over used and over powered, heroics could often have WAY too high impact on armies as a whole, and a few balance factors.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:04 pm

[quote="Killerkatanas"]Bilbo:

There are listings, and some photos of my stuff and some games I have done, here on this forum in the section "My armies getting out of control."
I have not updated it recently, and my forces continue to grow. I only have Dale to do now, but I have been waiting to see if additional stuff comes out, like banners and horn-blowers, so that I do not have to convert any.

Woe Mate,

I thought that my painted collection was huge, but you gave really gone for it! I particularly liked the Hobbits! I couldn't find the Ruffians unfortunately. I presently have 12 undercoated which I having the same stats as orc trackers were bought pre Hobbit rules when they could volley fire. I still intend to use them with someone like Thryden (to fulfill the warbands rules) who can leave them speedily on a horse and get to the real action elsewhere, and use them to hold an objective or as a lure to distract more powerful enemies. At 5 points a model with bows or whips they can look bigger and with their low defence an extremely tempting target. They are definitely cannon fodder.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:35 pm

Hasn't this been mentioned several times before? Or is my memory playing tricks on me? Anyway, WotR was (and still is!), despite its faults, an amazing game system. The huge battles were the best battles, and WotR is the perfect way to play it. I am highly doubtful GW will so much as acknowledge it ever existed from now on, certainly not for the Hobbit, which has little to with Rings in any case.

@killerkatanas you and your mighty collection are awesome. Especially the Abrakhan Guard (unless my memory again?)

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

Armies out of control... yeah i know the feeling...

Killerkatanas wrote:

Bilbo:

A real shame since I have so many figs. Oh, and BTW, I have 6 Mumakil.

*coughs* I have... 10 shhh!

Ruffians...Even at 10 points are a rare unit, and Isengard already has a hard time with the Decree of Rarity (why are Dunlendings Rare for Pete's sake?). But When faced with Morannons who with shields are 25 points and are almost as fight effective as Uruk-Hai at 35 points, any qualms soon vaporise... The hardest thing is finding the models or suitable models to convert. All credit to Killerkatanas for that sizeable force!

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

Back to 2. Ed:
For the last 4 or so games we have managed to play large 2000+ point battles on a large table (2 6x4' tables making a great 8'x6' play area). The 'feel' is great and the sense of a large battle with the ebb and flow of victory uncertain as different sides have successes across the battlefront.

It would be such a shame to lose that from lord of the Rings and the Hobbit.

One point against a future mass battle release that people latch on to is the smaller boxes (10-12 infantry) and the increased price. And also people saying that GW wouldn't release a Mass battle system as it would be too expensive to amass a force. But, consider this: Has our favourite lotr figure manufacturer ever shied away from opportunities to increase its turnover and ways to enhance their lucre?

I would say, rather, that WotR was born out of a 'fading' of the franchise in sales... Most players had forces they could use for SBG, and most of the models from the films had been released, and indeed the films were 6 years past, and The Hobbit Film(s) still a dream stuck in pre-production wrangles and ifs and maybes. WotR encouraged players with a reasonable force to buy more to make a massed army.

The WotR rules I think were a marvel to utilise what was in the available boxes... generally 24 models in a box to make 3 companies of 8. Or 3 companies of cavalry.

If the same model is applied. Then after a year or two of SBG focus after the last movie and while they still have the license, they may bring out a form of larger scale battles, based on the new box sizes (10-12 infantry). As for WotR all GW has to do is make (possibly) movement trays and a nice profitable rulebook, and they can keep selling more models of already produced ranges until their license runs out... (minimal effort to maximise profit)

The only fly in the ointment is, as I pointed out previously, indirectly, is a reduced lack of commitment in the franchise. The Hobbit features on many of the last year's White Dwarf covers... yet barely a mention inside those covers, let alone a gaming or modelling article!

War of the Ring 2 ed?

Who is online