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 Post subject: An effective 2k elven army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:47 am 
Elven Warrior
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So something I find very difficult in doing with elves at 2000pts in wotr is creating an army that can cope with an enemy army that spams heavy armour. I usually play against an Uruk army that takes x2 6comp uruks with shields and 1 formation of allied moraons to screen these two from my haldirs elves( re roll all failed shots against uruks). Plus numerous other goodies including multiple ballitae

I've been trying to come up with a good counter and I came up with this
Desperate heroics(Gil galad). 50
Gil galad. 300
Elrond. 215
Elladan. 35
Elrohir. 35
Galadhrim regiment 4companies/shields. 200
Galadhrim regiment 4companies/shields. 200
Galadhrim regiment 4companies/shields. 200
Wood elf warband 2companies/bows

Battlehost
Haldirs elves. 50
Haldir. 75
Galadhrim regiment 3companies. 150
Galadhrim regiment 3companies. 150

Allies
Dwarf warrior kinband 2companies/two handed weapons. 80
The 3 hunters. 175

So thoughts?

I know it's not the best but it's what I thought might work. My opponent uses lurtz to epic strike so Gil galas to countermand to add punch, plus 12 might points is going to be great!!! :rofl:
I know Elrond is looked upon with disdain but I need a goodish spell caster, but the reason Im not taking gandalf is because of elronds epic restoration for the 3 hunters.

So the basic core I'm looking for I'd galadhrim shieldmen
The above list is changeable
This is what I have:
8 boxes of galadhrim warriors :twisted:
5 boxes of galadhrim knights
3 boxes of last alliance
1 box of wood elves
1 box of dwarf warriors
2companies of Guards of the galadhrim court
Numerous captains(3?)
2 storm callers
The fellowship
Haldir
Celeborn
Gil-Galad
Elrond
Glorfindel
The twins
Rumil

And a bolt thrower, trebuchet, and a box of womt

So that's what I have to work with.
Any suggestions are welcome :-D

I'm hopefully going to get thranduil and galadriel soon :roll:

Thanks in advance :)

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Last edited by WhoelsebutHaldir on Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:56 pm 
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probably need some banners in the formations. As well as some spellcasters who can use spells of the wilderness. I tend to use thranduil to guide arrows, makes any bow formation deadly. the way i find to beat people in WoTR is to go with numbers, if you have more companies of guys, you will probably win. get some knights in there, unless your opponent has pikes, they will smash through most things.

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:20 pm 
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You never need banners in WotR!

Your Galadhrtim should really be in formations of 5+ companies as they are only defence 6. i also don't recommend the battlehost.

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:37 pm 
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SouthernDunedain wrote:
probably need some banners in the formations. As well as some spellcasters who can use spells of the wilderness. I tend to use thranduil to guide arrows, makes any bow formation deadly. the way i find to beat people in WoTR is to go with numbers, if you have more companies of guys, you will probably win. get some knights in there, unless your opponent has pikes, they will smash through most things.[/quote

Elrond has mastery 3 and command/wilderness
My opponent plays isengard, so ya tons of pikes when I bring cavalry, which makes them useless :sad:

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
You never need banners in WotR!

Your Galadhrtim should really be in formations of 5+ companies as they are only defence 6. i also don't recommend the battlehost.


So I'll change the 3x 4companies into 2x 6companies.
The battle host is because I play mostly against isengard and I usually take all the things necessary to creat it. So 50pts to get rerolls against all Uruk-hai is worth it to me because it doubles the effectiveness of the formations.
But against other opponents I would not take it.

Thanks for the replies! :-D

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Saruman can break shields so I'd take him but I'm guessing he'll be playing Saruman aswell. The best option would be to take 400 pts of WoMT (16c) and build Elves around that, you'll need the numbers.

You can make his wall ineffective with spells in the meantime. Transfix them and if the odds are bad, Immobilize and Entangle.]

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:22 am 
Elven Warrior
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I won't field saruman, because I don't have the model, and I don't want to have two sarumans beating each other up.
About the womt, ya i could use some...more but I don't have the money or the will(when I have all those galadhrim).
But I plan on using epic defense to keep the two main formations alive longer.
Who knows, maybe if wort gets a re vamp I'll buy so womt.
Thanks for the in-put

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Slythar wrote:
Saruman can break shields so I'd take him but I'm guessing he'll be playing Saruman aswell. The best option would be to take 400 pts of WoMT (16c) and build Elves around that, you'll need the numbers.

You can make his wall ineffective with spells in the meantime. Transfix them and if the odds are bad, Immobilize and Entangle.]

Good luck!


We want an Elven army, not a Minas Tirith one :) . I'd loose the Wood Elves for an extra 2 coys of Dwarf Warriors with 2HW (put in the Dwarf Archers, and proxy the last company), and maybe change Gilgalad into another 6 coys of Galadhrim (GotGC, High Elves and a few actual Galadhrim. But I can't really get a good list into my head, haven't done anything about WotR for far too long.

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:58 am 
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I think he meant the womt for a more competitive list, like a tournament, but I'm just going to use this list in local games.
I'm going to keep Gil galad ( mostly because he's epic, I like the model and the extra hitting power/dozen might points)
Maybe take 3comp of dwarf 2handed and Change the galadhrim to 2x 5comp, 1x 3comp?

It's a shame that wotr has dropped in popularity:(

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:41 am 
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WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:
I think he meant the womt for a more competitive list, like a tournament, but I'm just going to use this list in local games.
I'm going to keep Gil galad ( mostly because he's epic, I like the model and the extra hitting power/dozen might points)
Maybe take 3comp of dwarf 2handed and Change the galadhrim to 2x 5comp, 1x 3comp?


Nah, I'd keep the galadhrim, they're your (not quite so) hard centre, so you want them to be big. Why don't you want to loose the wood elves?

WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:
It's a shame that wotr has dropped in popularity:(


Aye.

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:23 am 
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The wood elves are so I can sneak up on the multiple ballistas that I usually have to fight? The range kills my main formations, then again now that you mention it they will still be able to shoot me from 24in away, so I might switch them out....

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Sadly the elf army list is rubbish, if you want to win you first have to accept that you can,t really have a theme a High elf, Galadhrim, or Mirkwood army won't work you have to cherry pick the best bits of each of these and combine them.

Loads of people have asked these questions before (mostly me) i'll post some links to the article

A list of good allies that provide some hitting power
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=23091

a list of tactics and I suppose skills elves have that are overlooked
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=23120

Lastly you will need a spell caster so here is a really really brief summary of the spellcasters you can use

I'll split them into four different types Support, Destruction, Warrior Mage and Augmentation

First is the Stormcaller who is just the only good equivalent of a Shaman he has no other abilities so doesn't really fit into any category he has Mastery 1 Wilderness he has some use in a unit of archers Guide Arrows (+1 shoot value) or another fragile unit you want to keep out of combat Call Wind(Drive Back D3+1 or as I call it just out of charge range), Entangle(Move as if difficult terrain) and Panic Beast(Courage test or Driven back D6+6) are good at keeping enemies away also Nature's Wrath (D6+3 hits and is stronger if in terrain) is also good but for 100 points he is just to overpriced to be used / especially for allies as you have to take another elf unit with him, my advice STAY AWAY

SUPPORT
Loads of great heroes are best used supporting others and include Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, Cirdan, Arwen, Gandalf both White and Grey and Radagast

Galadriel and Gandalf: I'm putting these two together as they share loads of abilities and are a similar price they share Epic Renewal (a hero regains a point used up earlier in the game), Counsellor (at the start of the turn you can give 1 or more might to another hero, roll D6 and if it's a six the hero gets 3 might instead of 1), Epic Defence (increase a formations defence by +2) and Touched by Destiny (one free Epic action each turn, amazing for Epic Defence, Renewal and Channelling) and Epic Channelling (allow you to re-roll focus rolls). There mastery level of 3 in Dismay and Command mean they can reduce enemies courage, increase your units courage, Immobilise/Transfix key formations, heal lost units and make his unit cause terror which can all be used together to devastating effect and can give your entire army a significant boost.

Gandalf cost 25 points more and has the Blinding Light spell which allows him to reduce a formations fight skill to 0 for a turn and drive them back D6, which is easily worth the points but Galadriel causes Terror so it is personal choice over Terror for free or Binding Light for around the cost of a company.

Gandalf's white version just improves these abilities Overlord (Formations even without a hero can use his might to call any heroic action), Terror (unit is harder to charge/better at charging especially when aided by his spells) and Voice of Command (+1 courage to all formation within 6 inches of his formation) but at 300 points he becomes to expensive for most armies.

Elrond: Elrond is a strange Epic in that he doesn't fit into any role very well, with fight 8, resilience 3, 3 might and inspiring leader (Elves) he could easily have been a warrior Mage but then he was given Epic Renewal (a friendly hero regains 1 point of might) and Restoration (a formation regains D3 causalities) which do very little to help him in doing this. On the other hand with these and mastery 3 in wilderness and command he could have made a good support Epic but he lacks Touched by Destiny (one free epic action), Mighty Hero (regains used might on a +4) or Hero of Legend (1 free might per turn) so he becomes very poor as his might will run out quickly and there are much better and cheaper spell caster who can do the same if your looking for just a pure support caster. For 215 points he is way to much to be a jack of all trades but master if none.

Cirdan: a budget caster with budget abilities. I like Cirdan at only 75 points he is easy to fit into most armies and I have found that he is often overlooked by your opposition and is left to his own devices. With Mastery 1 Command he's not the greatest spell caster but often he still has access to a couple of courage improving and draining spells and my personal favourite spell Blessing of the Valar (regain D3 or D6 causalities) this spell alone is worth you taking him alone because this is he excels both Epic Defence (+2 defence) and foresight (for every causality on the roll of a 6 it is stopped) allow him to toughen up units meaning they take less damage add this to the ability to replenish lost troops and a unit suddenly has an unexpected amount of resistance. I accept that he may only have 1 might but a counsellor such as Galadriel and Gandalf can keep him going. I find it is best to but him with a hero such as Aragorn or Boromir who will get all of the attention and allow Cirdan to do his thing without anyone noticing.

Arwen: Basically an improved Stormcaller and a caster on a budget (125 points) . She has Mastery 2 Wilderness making her a competent caster and with 3 might, Epic Defence and Natures Wrath (a wilderness spell that is particularly useful against units in cover) she can easily be worth her points in most games and is more versatile than a Stormcaller and is a good choice for an ally given the high cost of other casters. If your ever tempted to take a Stormcaller and you already have Thranduil take her instead.

Radagast: At only 160 points he is the cheapest Mastery 3 caster on the good side and evil I think if you take away the massively under costed Ringwraiths. He is very good at support but is let down by not having Touched by Destiny or Counsellor. With Epic Defence and Renewal he can keep a unit going but his real skill lies in Epic Tranquillity, Beastwalk and Birdsight. Epic Tranquillity a unique ability allows him to stop any unit charging his formation that turn this is an absolutely incredible ability that should never be overlooked. Beastwalk means any unit he is in has pathfinder (Master) and an increased charge range this ability is often overlooked and your opposition often forgets he has it as they get hung up on Epic Tranquillity meaning you can can get one or two of those all important flank charges in when they're least expecting it (I can vouch for the amazed look on the other guys face when you roll badly and he celebrates for a bit until you remind him you charge D6+6 not D6+2) you'll be surprised how often those extra 4 inches make all the difference. Birdsight is again massively helpful being able to cast spells without a line of sight is invaluable as it allows him to help units that would usually be isolated e.g those that were left behind to protect archers/artillery immobilising an ambushing or instilling courage so your troops don't become disordered after failing the courage test to be charged by a terror causing creature can make a huge difference. Lastly he is the only mastery 3 caster with wilderness and command which can give him an edge over casters such as Gandalf and Galadriel as Dismay and Command are very similar spell lists which is good if you want to double up (Sunder Spirit and light of the Valar which both drop courage or Immobile and Transfix which both stop formations moving) but the variety given by Wilderness does provide you with a few more tactical options.

For the greatest support caster I would have to go for Gandalf the Grey. Galadriel comes a close second but Blinding Light is to good and Gandalf spells allow him to cause Terror if he needs to, also he has 1 more reliance which makes him just a little bit harder to kill which is nice as he cost 200 points.

DESTRUCTION
There aren't many of these for the good side but those that are are able to cause huge amounts of damage that no other caster can match and include Saruman and the Council of Wizardry

Saruman: Though Saruman does have some supportive Skills, Voice of Saruman (stops a charge against him if you roll 1-3 on D6), Epic Renewal and some of the spells in Command and Dismay but this is not the reason why you would take Saruman. You take Saruman for the spells of Ruin he is one of only two units in the entire good side that have it, He really excels at causing massive damage where other good spell casters can't Epic Ruination (+2 strength to all Ruin spells) and the Ruin spells allow him to cause D6 strength 1 hits per company (amazing with Epic Ruination against large low defence units), re-roll 1s and 2s in close combat (all hits if you roll a 6), D6+3 strength 5 hits (amazing against small high defence units with Epic Ruination) and Shatter Shields (removes shields for a turn, or the entire game if you role a 6 which make that group of Morannon Orcs or Easterlings look a lot less scary). Saruman's might should never be used for heroic moves, fights ect. or Epic Renewal you should spend it on Epic Channelling and Ruination. He is the good sides best 'artillery' hero, I have in the past brought Gandalf with him and used Gandalf Epic Renawal and Touched by Destiny to call Epic Ruination every turn and needless to say cause massive damage.

The Council of Wizardry: On the face of this it these guys looks amazing knowledge of every spell in the game, Mastery 10, 5 might and a slew of special rules make them seem fantastic but there is two massive flaw first NO RE-ROLL FOR FOCUS DICE this is a massive problem as no one will be able to get more than about 3 spells of before failing a focus test meaning a huge chunk of there ability is lost each turn and second it requires you to have Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast in it meaning you can't use them as Epics. That aside there special rules do make them quite a good choice A Wizard is Never Late (re-roll priority) nice little bonus for obvious reasons but is in no way a certainty for success. A couple of there special rules do go well together so I'm going to do them together Will You not Consult with me (pick and enemy hero and on a roll of +4 you steal one of his might and give it to the Council), Counsellor and the formation 5 might means that they will rarely run out of might and allows them to help other units if need be. Master of Hues (Move 12 and attack as if cavalry) and Blessed Bands (Bane rule against all foes) make them better in combat but they are only defence 4 and only have 5 attacks which means even with resilience 3 they will die like flies these abilities act as a first and last line of defence meaning they can at least survive a few turns in combat and stay out of it if they need to, they can also use Blessing of the Valar to regain lost casualties if the need to. Lastly Thundercall (shooting attack at strength 10 unlimited range) which is amazing at taking down enemy monsters.

For the greatest Destruction caster Saruman wins hands down, he is purely an instrument of destruction whereas the Council of Wizardry even though it has access to the Darkness spell can't really summon the same destructive power and at 500 points are too expensive to fit into most armies (must be minimum +2000 as they are forgotten Realms) whereas you can get Saruman into a 800-900 point game and he doest A LOT more damage points to points wise than the council can. If you could house rule maybe swapping Gandalf's priority re-roll for a focus re-roll then I think the Council may actually be a viable helpful unit in a large battle but otherwise they are to ineffective for there points

Warrior Mage
These are people who can cast spells but also hold themselves up in a fight and include Celeborn, Thranduil and Glorfindel

Celeborn: I think that he has been given magic and the 175 point cost so he seems equal to his wife there is no description I'm aware of him being noticeable weaker than her. His Command spells are helpful (see Gandalf and Galadriel) and his statistics fight 7, resilience 3 and 3 might are very good, Epic Defence (+2 defence) and Challenge (Hero it is called against formation must charge and then hero must duel you or can't move if a -3 courage test is failed, this is great for taking on weak heroes or caster they don't want to get into a fight) are also helpful, add these to the Lord of Lothlorien (If Celeborn is in a formation of Galadhrim the entire formation may use his fight value) and he is a skilled and versatile hero.

Thranduil : I love this guy, he is 50 points less than Celeborn has the same stats(F7, R3, C6, M3) , no Lord of Lothrorien and has Epic Shot (cause D6 hits) and Epic Strike (increase fight to 10) instead of Defence and Challenge. This means he is more than capable of taking on practically anyone in a heroic duel (fight 10 resilience 3 is impossible to top from any hero worth around 125 points) and is fantastic at killing monsters thanks to Epic Shot. His Wilderness spells (Mastery 2) just add to the tactical options as they include both support and damage spells. If you don't care about theme or lore take this guy in every army you can, where Elrond tries to cover lots of roles but fails thanks to his massive price and lack of destructive power, Thrandruil is a jack of all trades for an amazing price who can switch to do whatever role you need him to with ease. Can't stress how much you should TAKE THIS GUY

Glorfindel: Glorfindel is a strange caster as he is a single model. His price is huge (250 points which is a much as a mumuk) but he does have one often overlooked skill. Harassment he has a movement of 12 (24 if you at the double) he moves and charges as if a flying monster meaning he can pass over/through enemy formation or go around the enemy so he is behind them which is where he excels. His stats (M8, F7, S4, D7, A4, R2, C5, M3) are good enough to take on a formation of archers especially if you cast Immobile so they can't shoot you. After they are sorted out you can use him to move behind the enemies meaning The Enemy is Upon us rule halves there movement and his spells can be used to manipulate the opposition and lastly he can REAR CHARGE meaning -5 dice, this is invaluable and can cause massive problems for your opponent. The only problem is his cost you have to do a lot of disruption for him to be worth his points and if your opposition have lots of archer he can can just get shoot to bits really quickly this means he require a fair degree of skill to use but is very effective is used properly.

You can probably tell which one I think is the best warrior caster is from my descriptions, the other two are good but Thanduil is so much better

AUGMENTATION
This is just a catch all title for all other spell casters who don't fit the other categories or who just have magic for the sake of being true to the source material

Fellowship: this is a prime example the only reason they have magic is that they have Gandalf in it. He can help them by replenishing casualties, making them cause Terror terrifying enemies (reducing courage) and immobilising/Transfixing them.

Gildor: As far as I'm aware the only non Epic named caster in the game, he covers a similar role as Glorfindel, where he loses the extra movement his formation has Ambusher meaning he can just pop up behind the enemy. His Mastery 2 Wilderness is also good at disruption and Natures Wrath is great at getting at archers in terrain. His formation are wood elves w/bow and +1 Fight for 5 points less than usual making them a good deal and his stats (F7, R2, C6, M2) are good and fight 7 means he can do some serious damage in heroic duels. He is interesting because his formation costs 160 for him and a banner bearer which is useless for archers so he theoretically cost 160 points which is a lot but then you have to take into account the formations Ambushers rule and there reduced cost and the fact he is like a captain (50 points) and a Stormcaller (100 points) mixed together.

The White Council : I have all the models for this formation and really try to like them but I can't they fall into the same category as Elrond trying to do to much they have some skills that make them good in combat Blademaster (re-roll hits in combat) and some that are good at keeping them out of it Voice as Saruman (refer to Saruman earlier) and Aura and Dismay (Terror test on 3 dice rather than 2, it worth mentioning this can also be used offensively) but they only have defence 5 and resistance 3 meaning they die easily. Well perhaps there better at magic Mastery 8 Wilderness, Command and Dismay and re-roll focus dice (Channel Magic) make them very good at magical support but no might regaining abilities and only counsellor means that there not brilliant at this either. They also face the same problems as the Council of Wizardry you can't take either Galadriel (who is amazing as an Epic), Gandalf (who is amazing as an Epic), Saruman (who is amazing as a Epic, are you seeing a theme) and Elrond (alright he is actually really bad on his own, theme ended) on there own no sane person would take them over Galadriel, Gandalf and say Thranduil for the same price (500 points) and together as individual epic working together would be much more effective and have the same combined Mastery level and spell lists.

There is no best caster here for obvious reasons but I will recap the best of the others in one place

Support: Gandalf the Grey
Destruction: Saruman
Warrior Mage: Thranduil
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:53 pm 
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As an elf player you are going to be outnumbered so you're going to need to save points wherever you can. with that in mind here are some more pointers

1) No Gil-galad or Elrond - Elrond is really bad and a huge waste of points stay away from him at all costs. Gil-galad is great but really expensive in a huge +3000 points game with tons of allies he is immense (especially with Epic leadership) just line him up against the biggest and baddest thing you can find and watch it die then the second biggest and so on but at 0-2000 points he is just to expensive and there aren't enough big bad things for him to kill to be worth his points and Epic Leadership really loses it effectiveness, I have used him in +5000 point battle when my entire gaming group got together for a game and re-rolling courage tests for +30 formations is fantastic especially with low courage men but with four or five high courage elven formations it's not so necessary.

2) You need either Gandalf or Galadriel (refer to above for why)

3)Cheap heroes are your friends Haldir is amazing his stats are enough to smash most captains to pieces and go toe to toe with most Epics, Epic Shot makes him great against monsters and Epic Sacrifice is a great last ditch defensive move if it's late in the game and he's down to one might a +3 save for each guy can be the difference between winning a fight decisively and being massacred to the last man(or elf). Lastly as you should be taking Galadriel you get a free 'At the Double' which if used properly is amazing just look at his stats and then compare them to a goblin captains all that for only 25 points extra

Cirdan is often overlooked but he is 25 points cheaper than any caster in the game at only 75 points his stats are a bit rubbish he can just about match Queen Beruthiel or Kardush but beyond that he not going to be around for very long if you expect him take on any one better and win. His real skills lie in his magic and abilities he is cheapest caster you can get and the only Command caster under 100 points the rest being with every other one being +175 points this allows you to sneak another spell list into your army with out expending huge number of points if you want to control the battlefield with command spells he is a must, the little courage buffs and drains he can cast can be instrumental as part of a larger picture. In my eyes however his true skill is survivability use his one spell per turn to cast Blessing of the Valar (Replenish D3 casualties) add this to his 'The Gift of Foresight' rule (each hit negated on a 6) and the fact he can use Epic Defence once (Counsell/Renew some more if you want) and you can give any unit a surprising amount of sticking power a High Elf Cohort is strong anyway but a few turns with D9 and then any hits that do get through are negated on a 6 and then after all that any guys that did die D3 of them can be replenished they suddenly becoming very robust (even if your not an elf player this tactic works it makes Khazad Guard almost bulletproof and even gives Oathsworn militia some staying power) just be aware of fighty Epic Heroes if Boromir, Amdur ect. duel him he suddenly becomes a liability as he will lose badly and they are going to carve their way through your lovely expensive troops, to counteract this either move him around a lot so your entire army gets a little buff of defence and replenishment or make sure to but your own fighty hero in there and declare a duel before they can. Thranduil is great for this as you should be taking him anyway. As a non elf player Aragorn or Boromir is good as all the attention goes on them and no one notices Cirdan and he can get on at what he is best at.

The Twins are also amazing give one of the Blessing of Galadriel (+D3 might) with their unbreakable bond rule you basically double this to (+D6) and this to a counselling hero and you can double up on each point of might by getting two heroic actions for the price of one.

It's worth mentioning one of the elves skill is manoeuvrability if you use the combo of Haldir, Galadriel and the Twins Haldir 'free' at the double and two heroic moves for the price of one or if the have been Epic Renewed a point by Galadriel the price of none your force can shoot around the field also don't for get about Heroic fights again the two for one trick is great and Haldirs added might helps, you will usually be outnumbered so having some formations being able to fight twice is amazing especially if due to having there courage drained they become disordered which bring me onto my next point

3) An Elven army wins by dictating when and where it fight you must you as much magic as you can to drain the courage of the enemy and transfix/immobilise key enemy units, this is where the elves terror comes into its own if you can kill any inspiring leader type heroes (this shouldn't be two hard even the twin who are F6 are quite good at this) you can to a degree control key enemy units by making them fail courage test to charge you or to resist being transfixed, this is also good if you go on the attack the addition of around 5 to 6 dice is great. I have faced a horde goblin army with no monster in it (on purpose he was going for theme) once I had killed Durburz I could basically dictate which formations of his i could charge and them I used my Epics with Epic Strike to decimate there formations by attacking captains who's formations had failed there courage tests meaning +11 dice to begin with and when I inevitable one the fight because I had had the call a heroic fight I got to attack again and repeat the process it was BEAUTIFUL

4) Epic Defence - Elves have more Epic Defence heroes than any other army list most have between 0-1 elves have 7 use this to the best of your abilities (Gandalf works great with Elves and has Epic Defence as well so you could say 8 )

5) Epic Heroes - Elves have the biggest selection of Heroes in the game meaning you have a huge choice use this and cherry pick the best heroes for what ever job you need them to do a goblin player only has two choices you have like 13 meaning you can pick the best one for the lob rather than trying to do the job with a hero who is unsuited for it. To this end if you really want to win then ally in some heroes from other list Eomer is basically like a cheaper version of the angry Galadriel.

6) TAKE THRANDUIL he is the best hero in the game hands down if used right at only 125 points he makes ringwraiths look overpriced.

7) Star units some elf units are pointless GoGC are awful for example but some are great use High Elf Cohorts (great stats and D7) with there captain (free point of might and stats that make make most epic heroes look like wimps, he has F7 C6 and M3 that outshine nearly every Epic in the game for 50 POINTS for the same price a goblin captain has F3 C3 M2) use some normal galadhrim guys with shields as a proxy. Wood Elves are great as archer with there Elven clocks stopping all return fire. Gildors household are great as well Gildors stats are great and he's a Mastery 2 caster, his wood elves are better than normal and cheaper than normal add this to Ambusher and elves master pathfinder and they are worth every penny, Natures wrath can decimate archers in cover and once there dead there fantastic at harassing the enemy from behind enemy lines.

8) Don't use any Elven Legendary formations apart from Gildor are all AWFUL

9) Use allies to fill in your weaknesses either Oathsworn militia for numbers or Murin's Guard for Defence (D10), also ally in heroes I have mentioned some before and after this but one often overlooked one is Floi Stonehand his stats are great and he has the two Epic actions elves need most Defence and Renewal (you can Renew his might with Galadriel's free point and then use his renewal to renew another heroes theoretically doubling Galadriel range to 24'') Loremaster is also great for giving you a tactical edge removing the Prowler or Terror traits at a key moment can be fantastic all this for 90 points

10) Last but not least it is very hard to win as an elf player you need to do everything right with that in mind a few reminders don't be afraid to re-write your army list to fit each situation rather than just using the same set up each time your army should vary significantly if it is fighting goblin horde army to when it is fighting and elite Uruk army yo can't afford to be lazy. Second remember Epic heroes can jump from formation to formation this is invaluable in an elven army if you want to win they can move 18'' that is no small distance use it well. Third elf heroes are great I keep comparing our guys to a goblin captain but that is just to highlight the difference our captains can take on most non Epic striking heroes on even terms or even in our favour in some cases don't think you have to splash out on loads of fighty Epic Heroes to win. Lastly I touched on this earlier but elves with a move of 8 and 12 for mounted added with high courage (which you can easily improve as well) mean 'At the Double' rolls are usually passed meaning 16 and 24 add this to Pathfinder (Master) and the fact you can immobilise and entangle (move as if in difficult terrain) enemy units you suddenly have a very mobile army that can as it were 'float like a butterfly, sting like a bee'


Last edited by ElfGeneral on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Lastly there's one thing I forgot to mention

11) Sort of mentioned in passing and as a theme throughout the above but another thing you need to focus on is Might, might is the the petrol that drives the engine of WOTR and elves have it in abundance, it may seem like cheating but 'Counsellor battery' with Galadriel and Gandalf it's not really cheating as the rest of your army is so overpriced and fragile it's more like evening the playing field. Might is so important for elves because canny use of a heroic or Epic action can change a battle completely you need to make sure your might is in the right place at the right time Galadriel and Gandalf's Epic Renewal and 'Touched by Destiny' rules mean you can generate 1-2 free points of might each turn meaning in a ten turn game you get an extra10-20 might per game add that to the 6 they already have and the might of your other heroes and you could easily have 30 -35 might compare this to a Mordor army with some Ringwraiths, Kardash and some captains and you could easily have 3 times as much might add this to the fact the Ringwraiths won't want to use their might as they are then vulnerable to duels and your army has a huge advantage in terms of how many Epic and heroic actions you can do giving your more umph and tactical option which is just what you need. Now as good as this all sounds you are likely not to get to use this combo every turn as you will want to use the 'Touched by Destiny' might for other things like Epic Defence or Channelling so you will probs only make 5-10 extra might but it's still great. You should really drive home this advantage the Twins are good for this as they sort of double each point if might they get (a little trick is to remember that their bond travels across the entire board meaning only one of them needs to be near Galadriel, also don't be afraid to call a heroic action even if it only favours one of the brothers if the brother nearest Galadriel is holding ground get him to call a Heroic Move or Charge even if you don't move so the other brother can use it) don't be afraid to ally out Erkenbrand has M3 and some great rules for only 75 points, Isildur has M3 and Epic Strike for 85, Faramir has M4 Epic Strike and Valour Unbound for 90 (he's amazing) if your going for a bigger game then Theoden's (125 points) 'Touched by Destiny' Rule means he could generate 13 might all on his own.
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:58 pm 
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I've been playing elves for a while so I think I have covered most of it now but does anyone think I've missed anything important out????
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Kudos too anyone who reads that, well done ElfGeneral for taking the time, it should help many people. It deserves at the very least a :yay:

Apparently there used to be gold start we could give people, this would've been a great time.

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:19 am 
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I've written my own review of all the elven units here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22651

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Telchar wrote:
I've written my own review of all the elven units here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22651


little bit of an understatement you've basically written a review of every unit in the game and there all pretty good, I have a few complaints with the elf list but apart from that it's fantastic especially for looking at armies you don't fight very often to see how they work, and you've got back to doing Rohan after 'a short break' :D :D :D

My main complaints with the elves is that Galadriel Lady of Lothlorien should be a 9 she is as you say the linchpin of an elf army, Galadriel Protectress should be lower IMHO the 'always on' Epic Strike is nice but Spirit Grasp and Spirit walk are useless (if they made it that because she is in spirit form she could lead a formation of spirits these would have a small amount of use) but elves really don't need fighty heroes we have loads and even our captains are the same fight as most Epics, Rage is good but elves can't afford to lower there defence any more coupled with Legolas and maybe lower the formation courage so you get 6 or so extra dice this has some use but thats a 400 point combo (this actually only needs one might to do unlike the Aragorn, Gimli Legolas combo meaning you could repeat it every turn but still not great), Challenge is ok because of the F10 you can really make a mess of a goblin shaman or Ringwraith (you can't actually lose) and Charge is ok but just ok not really worth a point of might in most situations though. lastly this might just be a personal thing but I fight with magic when I play elves and use my terror and courage draining magic to dictate when and where I fight in this form she just isn't worth losing a Mastery three might making machine. If you are comparing her to the rest of the elf list she should be 6 and in a wider context why not take Elendil he has Narsil and one more might (which accounts for him being 25 points more) so again a 5 or 6.

Cirdan is undermarked as well he is the cheapest caster in the game and coupled with the Gift of Foresight he is just great especially as an ally because all other good armies lack magic so a cheap caster is great but also he causes Terror which doesn't matter with the elves because they all do but in some WOMT he adds a lot more also C5 is pretty good and again adds just a bit extra to a normal formation. In short he add lots of little things to a formation but added together he is well worth 75 points so an 8.

ok rant over everything else is exceptional and very fair I'm waiting for the Rohan Epics
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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 am 
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ElfGeneral wrote:
Telchar wrote:
I've written my own review of all the elven units here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22651


little bit of an understatement you've basically written a review of every unit in the game and there all pretty good, I have a few complaints with the elf list but apart from that it's fantastic especially for looking at armies you don't fight very often to see how they work, and you've got back to doing Rohan after 'a short break' :D :D :D

My main complaints with the elves is that Galadriel Lady of Lothlorien should be a 9 she is as you say the linchpin of an elf army, Galadriel Protectress should be lower IMHO the 'always on' Epic Strike is nice but Spirit Grasp and Spirit walk are useless (if they made it that because she is in spirit form she could lead a formation of spirits these would have a small amount of use) but elves really don't need fighty heroes we have loads and even our captains are the same fight as most Epics, Rage is good but elves can't afford to lower there defence any more coupled with Legolas and maybe lower the formation courage so you get 6 or so extra dice this has some use but thats a 400 point combo (this actually only needs one might to do unlike the Aragorn, Gimli Legolas combo meaning you could repeat it every turn but still not great), Challenge is ok because of the F10 you can really make a mess of a goblin shaman or Ringwraith (you can't actually lose) and Charge is ok but just ok not really worth a point of might in most situations though. lastly this might just be a personal thing but I fight with magic when I play elves and use my terror and courage draining magic to dictate when and where I fight in this form she just isn't worth losing a Mastery three might making machine. If you are comparing her to the rest of the elf list she should be 6 and in a wider context why not take Elendil he has Narsil and one more might (which accounts for him being 25 points more) so again a 5 or 6.

Cirdan is undermarked as well he is the cheapest caster in the game and coupled with the Gift of Foresight he is just great especially as an ally because all other good armies lack magic so a cheap caster is great but also he causes Terror which doesn't matter with the elves because they all do but in some WOMT he adds a lot more also C5 is pretty good and again adds just a bit extra to a normal formation. In short he add lots of little things to a formation but added together he is well worth 75 points so an 8.

ok rant over everything else is exceptional and very fair I'm waiting for the Rohan Epics


I'll answer in the other thread, OK?

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:37 am 
Elven Warrior
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i have to read all the posts from about half way down still, as i have not had access to a computer for the past week.
thanks for the replies and links!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: An effective 2k even army?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:19 am 
Elven Warrior
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ElfGeneral :yay: 8)
This should seriously get tagged: how to play elves in WOTR. Good job!
I'm looking into getting thranduil, cirdan and galadriel.

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