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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:15 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Also, one of the Battlehosts for Isengard is an amazing list. In fact, it replaces the xbow gunline + ambushing feral Uruk Hai list as my preferred way to run Isengard. You can run Dunlendings as the bulk of the force but not worry about the fact that they are 'rares'.

The Battlehost requires you to pay 75 pts and take Thrydan. Well, Thrydan is undercosted anyway, so we are ahead already! The base cost of the Battlehost buys you a great perk when you are within 12" of Thrydan, +1D6 attacks when you charge. This combined with the +1 str (on top of their str 4) when they charge, makes them the best value impact troops in the game.... because the Dunlending Huscarls, who will be the bulk of your force, are only 25pts a company. That's right, for the same cost as Minas Tirith Warriors, you get troops that are str 5 on the charge, with 1d6 bonus attacks. Str 5 is wounding even MT warriors or Morrannans on 5s. With the 2HW version, you are doing that on 4s. Lesser troops (def 5 and below) would be hit on 3s. These guys will plow through enemy troops.

The only other thing you are forced to take is some wildmen of dunland. At 15pts a company, they will not break the bank, and since they benifit from the same charge bonuses, actually make a great ambusher.

Of course, you still need a Leader (Saruman would be good) and some common troops (I'take a formation of Xbow Uruks).

This is yet another entry to the list of effective LOTR forces that can be based around plastic historicals.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Topic of the Week :theoden:
Factions
Rohan

What are your general thoughts about this faction; strengths, weaknesses, troops, playing with & against? Don't go into details about alliances, keep to the faction as stand alone for purposes of reviewing it. Rate the faction on a scale of 1 to 5 based on how they measure up in choices of troops and how well the army plays.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Caveat: I am mostly theoretical in this post. I am starting the painting of my own Rohan force that will be almost entirely mounted but it takes a while to get a decent WotR army on the table so it will probably be late winter or spring before I am getting experience. I have however played against a lot of cavalry of Fallen Realms and have also fielded some decent size Warg Rider forces so I’m familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of mounted Formations in WotR. That being said…

Rohan was my favorite “Good” force from the books, and continued to be so from the films as well. When I got involved with SBG a few years back I started to collect them a little until I realized how underpowered they were. By that point GW stat-creep had started to show up and they just couldn’t hold their own against many of the newer foot troops and most cavalry coming out could out class them as well. So, disappointed, I didn’t do much with them. I continued to collect them but just kept the boxes on the shelf in hope that someday they would get a revamp and be what they should be. With WotR and its Cavalry rules they are once again a powerful and valid faction on their own and I’d give them a solid 4 (maybe 4.5 but I’d have to play them first).

Theoden is now a good leader (he was a bit nerfed in SBG), with good stats and very effective Special Rules. They have several other strong Epic Heroes (both Eomer and Erkenbrand are great combat leaders) and even Eowyn’s got some interesting potential for surprise. Their basic Cavalry can be fielded in large numbers (both thanks to reasonable point costs and cheap plastic models) and their Royal Knights can form a solid center of any army. They have decent infantry choices to provide some support or to secure near by objectives, but I think a highly mobile, mostly mounted army is really what should be played if you’re going Rohan. Other armies have better defense infantry troops and options and Rohan just isn’t the best choice if that’s what you’re after.

They have no spell casters of their own and not much for siege weapon strength either. Their ranged fire is limited to basic bows (but you can get a lot of them cheap and numbers count heavily). So these contribute to the 4/4.5.

Battlehosts added some nice options to them as well. Theoden, Erkenbrand and Eomer all have a BH option that beefs up their core force and at reasonable points. But even without those I believe a three-Formation force of 4-6 Companies each and with at least two of those having some of these stronger Epic Heroes in the lead would be effective. If you can make you central Formation Royal Knights even better. Utilize the bow options to skirt and pester your enemy for as long as you can (which could be a long time unless you’re facing Wings of Terror). Take on support and flanking forces as much as possible and don’t get drawn into a fact-to-face charge against heavily armored foes. Pikes are not that common in many armies so don’t panic about them and if you do face them then try to outmaneuver them.

Not to get into allies directly, but both Aragorn and Gandalf (in either format) are good candidates for an Epic Hero that could take a decent Rohan force and make it formidable.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:47 am 
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I'd rate them a 3 at best, and then only with a solid core of their foot. 3 represents being simply ok, definitely not very powerful like Mordor (5) and generally second best in comparision to armies like Gondor (4), especcially in terms of costs. I've played a couple of guys who used them and the versions with foot were the most challenging. The horse heavy variants tended to be one-hit wonders (via combos) at best.

Without foot, they suffer too much from enemy shooting and general attrition vs a properly composed army. One player switched to a foot component after he realised that the cav standoff tactics he wanted to try, just don't work well in actual WOTR practice.

IMO, their standout mounted hero would be Eomer, Erkenbrand is another good one. I like Theoden a lot more in command of a foot unit though.

That said, another local is starting up a small Rohan list, and we'll see if he comes up with something new.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Xelee wrote:
I'd rate them a 3 at best, and then only with a solid core of their foot. 3 represents being simply ok, definitely not very powerful like Mordor (5) and generally second best in comparision to armies like Gondor (4), especcially in terms of costs.


I agree. Rohan lacks too many important aspects of an army: artillery, uber-heroes, monsters, and magic.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Their armor is low, i play against them many times with my grey company and ranger army and the game doesn't last very long. Sure they move 10 inches but i get i'm pumping 30 shots a formation into em. Then my knights mop up the rest, or have aragorn slap down eomer or watch the monkey twins kill theodan, its enjoyable.

While an entire rohirram army looks splendid overall i believe them to be weak, 2.5
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:29 pm 
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i played against a rohan force last week. it was under the command of one of our better players and it played well but we were doing a three way and my force got stuck fighting on two fronts and i still put a hurting on him.

the things i liked (or hated as i was playing against them) was the throwing weapons. as i was chasing him he was staying out of range of my pikes and hitting me with throwing weapons then bows after he drove me back. second was obvious the charge bonuses for cavalry. when he did charge non pike bearing infantry he did some damage. and lastly i believe it was the royal standard gave him a chance to regain might which is key to steal priority with a heroic charge.

disliked (or again liked as an opponent) low defense and strength. this game is a slugfest and you need both to really be competitive. as a fix though the royal knights are good i believe they are 4 and 6 respectivly. but being metal it would be tough to feild them in large numbers. heroes of course lacking magic is a big down side (i dont care how subtle they say it is in this game it is anything but subtle). Saruman and a shaman were wrecking his formations at a pretty good rate.

the battle hosts are good some offering boosts to charging abilities and the big one affecting theodens courage (takes i little of the sting out of magic).

overall i have to say the force gets a 3. they are not horrible and unworkable. but far from dominant. their only decent troops being mounted makes them a (dont pardon the pun) a one trick poney. a palantir or a lot of might are needed to ensure you get the charge because if you dont it will be a long fight phase for Rohan players. but they have potential if you have the money for guards and high numbers.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:06 am 
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I'd rate them as a 3 over a 2.5 because of:

1. Many pretty decent low-cost heroes.
2. Actually pretty good infantry options, not as cost effective as Gondor, but few are. This includes 20pt bow troops and 20pt throwing weapon/shield troops, with the option to take Royal Guard on foot.
3. Throwing weapons/missiles everywhere gives them all something to due in the shooting phase if things degenerate into a slugfest.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:22 am 
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Good points. I would give that a 3.5 is probably a more accurate measure with the arguments some of you have given.

I've been playing Wood Elves a lot in WotR and am used to pathetic Defense and mediocre Strength. :D You just need to recognize your weakness and play to your strengths (hopefully you have something to make up for it!). In the case of Wood Elves it's LOTS of shooting (my forces is usually 100% bow armed plus packing Throwing Weapons) and I combine it with a few solid Epic Heroes and some Magic. I know when I get into a slugfest with Morannon or Uruks or similar that I'm probably going to get slaughtered if it's a "fair fight" so I avoid fair fights. 8) Rohan would have to do the same, relying on mobility and ranged fire as those are they're only real tools. This means careful play and that's always a fragile situation.

Another extensive bow-armed force ( Elves or Gray Company ) would do serious damage to a Rohan army, that's for sure. Regarding GE's comment "Rohan lacks too many important aspects of an army: artillery, uber-heroes, monsters, and magic." though, I'd say first that you don't need all of those obviously and some are questionable for any army. The lack of Artillery and Monsters are not two things I'm overly concerned with. We find Artillery doesn't always last long and is only moderately effective, and I put very little faith in any H2K models as they seem to last only one round of combat and don't really seem to pull their weight in points (Eagles being my only personal exception thanks to swoop attacks).

The lack of an Uber-Hero is debatable. Though they don't have an Aragorn or Gothmog, Eomer and Erkenbrand are each very good primary Epic Heroes and Theoden and Theodred are not too far behind...and all of those are much more affordable than the Heroes of many other armies so you could potentially field 3 such where you may otherwise only have 2, for example.

Magic is the biggest no-show in Rohan and would obviously require some outside help, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Magic is a bane of any army in WotR and can really wreck havoc. As you implied, the "subtle" magic of Tolkien's world has become the sambuca of WotR. :roll:

I still believe the mobility, with lots of ranged combat options (bows and throwing weapons) and good Epic Hero selection for the necessary Might can give you a strong combat force if played effectively. If you're facing a bow-heavy force you're going to have a major problem (thanks for pointing that one out 8) It's important to know your weakpoints). I notice though that there aren't that many bow-heavy forces due to the fact that bows are normally pretty weak against many armies in WotR. But there are some and most armies do have some ranged fire.

So a 3.5 on its own merits I would say. Some allies and you can quickly counter most of your weaknesses, but that goes for pretty much any army.

But just think of how COOL it will be to see four Formations, each 8 Companies large, of Riders of Rohan, lead by all the great leaders, banners waving, charging down on your enemy line. :D Of course, they may not LAST long...but it will really look good while it does. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:23 am 
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Beowulf03809, one reason (not the only reason, but a key one) that I would find it hard to give rohan more than a 3 is the confirmation that Epic Sptrike works in duels. This is murderously bad for a cav force. Theoden in particular is going to be a priority target, which is why I see him as, perversely, better in a foot unit. Eomer is the saving grace here IMO. With this houseruled, I see Rohan as definitely being better.

While bow isn't as awe inspiring as crossbows, that is more to do with crossbows being too good for their points due to heroic shoot. Bow still has its uses - vs monsters, skulking in defensible terrain and shredding up hordes of goblins and orcs; of course, it is also handy vs cav. For this reason, I'm seldom without at least six-seven companies in a 1000pt Gondor force, and have taken more.

Rohan are definitely mobile, and definitely well able to throw out the shooting. The problem is, however, that there seem to be a great many things with the mobility/frontage to tie them up and plenty of ranged dice around to return fire.

I've held off the allies, since it seemed to provoke massive derailment last-time. However, it is not so much spells that I would want for Rohan as certain special abilities and Epic actions - Pathfinders, added charge range, abilities that prevent you being charged and Epic Defense.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:01 am 
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Beowulf03809 wrote:
Regarding GE's comment "Rohan lacks too many important aspects of an army: artillery, uber-heroes, monsters, and magic." though, I'd say first that you don't need all of those obviously and some are questionable for any army.


I wasn't really saying that those things in themselves are essential, but they are important because they add variety to a force. Which is what I was getting at, Rohan has very little variety. The have lots of Heroes and Legendary formations (most of which are fairly similar), then a few Common and Rare formations.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:19 pm 
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You can protect theoden with deorwine and hama if a hero with epic strike duels him but then your formation get's slaughtered.

Rohan is indeed not one of the best factions but they are not weak. You muswt be a tactical player to play with rohan. Rohan has some very strong calvary formations. And eomer's riders battlehost is the battlehost to counter pikes. Rohan is not weak but you must be a good player to play with the.

I give a 3
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:55 am 
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This is my last topic for now, I may not have internet for a long while. So if anyone feels like carrying on the torch for the subsequent weeks, feel free to do so.

Topic of the Week
Factions
FALLEN REALMS

What are your general thoughts about this faction; strengths, weaknesses, troops, playing with & against? Don't go into details about alliances, keep to the faction as stand alone for purposes of reviewing it. Rate the faction on a scale of 1 to 5 based on how they measure up in choices of troops and how well the army plays.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:56 am 
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I give fallen realms a 4.9 there only weakness is too much choice like with mordor they have ringwraiths mumaks elites low defence troops high defence troops they are the strongest faction in the game but not that strong you can't beat them.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:35 pm 
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i agree. they are easily up at the top and are extremely versatile. you can adapt a fallen realms army to play well in almost any situation. i'm giving them a 5.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:45 pm 
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It's a funny list. I'd give it both a 5 and a 3.5, here's why:

5 - You can definitely run some of the hardest lists imaginable using certain choices. We all know what they are, however...

3.5 - To most people's credit, I don't really tend to see those lists around. What I actually see get played is more like a Rohan level list with a better foot component and less options to choose from. This is your Haradrim themed list or your Easterlings themed list, Katafracts, Easterling Archers, and all.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:03 am 
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In game terms, Fallen Realms is one of the best available. I give them a 5 for the wide selections of cheap warriors (Haradrim & Khand), medium-quality warriors (Easterlings & Corsairs), and elites (Serpent & Dragon Guard). Of course, Mumaks alter strategies and tactics more so than any other piece in the game.

The only downside to the Fallen Realms is that they are expensive to collect with some units being available only in metal.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:47 pm 
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they are definitely stacked with variety. ive only ran them once and my haradrim got owned by amdur and i never ran them again but ive faced them several times and had some success against them.

the guy that runs them up here uses a dragon and a bunch of raiths but if he concentrated on getting the right components to compliment his easries i think it would be much more nasty.

i would give them a 4 just because while they have variety i like the quality of mordor isengard and the dwarfs so much better. like gondor they have one or two formations that can really put a hurting on the enemy. but one or two can easily be bogged down by magic and if done correctly ranged attacks. and i'm upset that chariots dont get expert rider.

but yeah solid 4

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:41 pm 
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4.5. I would say they have loads of variety however, they only have one legendary choice and they have no very cheap epics thus it can be hard to find a sensible leader in small battles.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Xelee wrote:
It's a funny list. I'd give it both a 5 and a 3.5, here's why:

5 - You can definitely run some of the hardest lists imaginable using certain choices. We all know what they are, however...

3.5 - To most people's credit, I don't really tend to see those lists around. What I actually see get played is more like a Rohan level list with a better foot component and less options to choose from. This is your Haradrim themed list or your Easterlings themed list, Katafracts, Easterling Archers, and all.


I agree with all of that, except perhaps lowering the 5 to a 4.5, due to the small number of Epic Heroes (admittedly good ones) and Legendary formations.

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