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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:54 am 
Kinsman
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Xelee wrote:
Actaully HRM - I don't doubt that quite a few people would appreciate something more positive abpout Rohan in the way of some notes on how you play them - if you are keen? It wouldn't have to be on this thread necessarily.

I'm just stuck on looking at them and seeing what a formation of Uruk Xbows and Saruman (or Seige Bows and Wraiths or...) can do to them in a couple of turns! Which is definitely focusing too much on the problem. :) A mate us up against me tommorrow night, and is game to give them a try non-houseruled - so I'd imagine he'd particulalry appreciate the advice.


The thing with Rohan is that you CAN'T get tricked into thinking your Eoreds are heavy cavalry. They're not. I know they have a higher Fight value than a lot of other cavalry, and equal to most "heavy cav" units (Swan Knights, Morgul Knights - only Galadhrim have higher, I believe), but the lack of lances and heavy armor blows a Trebuchet-sized hole in that plan right off the bat. You have to take advantage of what they DO do well, which is stick 'n' move type stuff. Three or four companies, max. Harass flanks, try and use the Devlan Mud out of Expert Rider - you're paying for it, you might as well use it. DO NOT ever fight on your opponents terms. DO NOT ever charge head-on. Hell, Riders of Rohan are almost as good as Outriders at what Outriders do best (though I do love that 2+ Shoot value). Speaking of Outriders, I find your opponent will do one of two things with them: either A) wisely ignore them, or B) waste FAR too much time on them. Depends on how experienced your opponent is.

What are your heavy hitters? Royal Knights and Sons Of Eorl, to be sure. Royal Guard on foot are good too, but are far too expensive in terms of cash to get a good 4-6 companies of them. Oathsworn Militia and Bowmen are actually pretty good considering their cheap-as-chips price. Most of Rohan's Legendary Formations are laughably bad deals (I'm looking at you, Erkenbrand's Riders), BUT some of the Battlehosts make them more worthy of consideration if you're inclined to go that route. Rohan has LOTS of good Epic Heroes - for 215 points the Elves get Elrond, or we get Erkenbrand, Eowyn and Eomer for 240 points. That's pretty damn good. Deorwine is a disgustingly good deal at 50 points.

You need to give your opponent lots of targets - large formations of cavalry tend to dry up quick under artillery or crossbow fire. Terrain is your friend. Use your speed and mobility. Magic, of course, is everyone's bane - not too much you can do other than ally someone in (I recommend Radagast). I personally try to stick and move, bob and weave... then try for a "knockout shot" late in the game with my Knights and Sons (if my opponent has unwisely left them alone, or I've managed to screen them). Be warned - if the KO punch wiffs, you're dead in the water.

They're like the Elves - they have a steep learning curve and they're not for beginners. I got de-freaking-molished every game when I started. I give 'em a not-so-solid 3 outta 5. If there's ever a WOTR 2nd Edition, I hope they get a subtle boost or two.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:06 am 
Elven Warrior
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What would you suggest as a sample 1000pt list? Or to put that another way: what has to go into a Rohan list, on that model? I'll send the guy a link to your post - 'group-think' is the enemy. Either way, one of us will be posting an AAR, so you will have a chance to critique or praise his tactics.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:00 am 
Kinsman
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Xelee wrote:
What would you suggest as a sample 1000pt list? Or to put that another way: what has to go into a Rohan list, on that model? I'll send the guy a link to your post - 'group-think' is the enemy. Either way, one of us will be posting an AAR, so you will have a chance to critique or praise his tactics.


I'll try to post up a different thread; I don't wanna derail the Elven discussion.

I hope some Elven players chime in here with some tactical savvy - I was a touch harsh on the ol' pointy-ears, as Gimli would call them. For the record, Elves HAVE busted me up before. I'm far from calling myself a tactical genius here.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:34 pm 
Elven Warrior
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From my experience, when peppered by enemy archers with a pretty good shoot value, and large formations of them, elves don't do so well. My galadhrim army was cut into pieces by a Gondor force with couple of formations of archers and rangers.

This is what I believe you must do with elves:

Get them into battle! With their good fight values, especaially if you include Gil-Galad with a large formation they will normally inflict a good amount of damage on the enemy. When you get your large formations into battle sweep around them with your cavalry from behind(you want to protect them) and hit the enemy in the flanks. An unstoppable charge with Galadhrim knights is very very scary.

Also get some magic into your force. A stormcaller or Elrond would be good. They'll use nature's wrath on the enemy to hurt them, and if they are placed with a shooting formation then they can improve the shoot value.

THis is all i could think of right now.
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:00 pm 
Kinsman
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It's important to note, though, that they have to get into combat ON THEIR TERMS, probably more so than any other army. You can't just smash 'em into anyone who happens to be parked in front of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:27 am 
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Topic of the Week
Factions
Angmar

Terror filled army. Strengths, weaknesses, strategies, troops, etc. Who plays with/against them? Give them a rating on 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:09 am 
Elven Warrior
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At 1000pts: I'd give Carn Dum warband focused a 3.5 - Not as good as Gondor, better than Rohan (much better than Elves). Solid 30pt pt troops, two Nazgul, Buhrdur. Either Orcs or Evil allies to round things out. Spirit based armies are hard done by in this game and seem like they would require better than average tactics (and I would suggest, a compliant opponent) to do well. .

At 2000 pts: I'd give the Spirit Legion and Buhrdur Battlehosts 3.5 as well. Carn Dum is as good as ever. The Spirit Legion really helps the Spirit troops, but we are talking about making them 'good enough', rather than awesome/easy like Mordor. Even without Battlehosts, I could see Spirit troops being ok as part of an army that alos had a decent amount of solid baseline troops.

Since everyone seems to not rate Angmar, I was actually going to do a tactics article - when I started them. Then I found this: http://fearandloathingonthetabletop.blogspot.com/

I do not really have much to add to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:42 pm 
Kinsman
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Xelee wrote:
Since everyone seems to not rate Angmar, I was actually going to do a tactics article - when I started them. Then I found this: http://fearandloathingonthetabletop.blogspot.com/

I do not really have much to add to that.


Now I want to start an Angmar army. I'm finding myself thinking up Carn Dum color schemes, haha. I actually was going to start an Isengard army as a counterpoint to my Rohirrim... But Angmar might be more fun, as I'd get to play an army that NO-ONE around here has the testicular fortitude to try.

That guy's Blog is actually really cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:13 pm 
Elven Warrior
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There is always the option of using whatever historicals could take the role as 'Carn Dum warriors' for Dunlending Huscarls, fiefdom foot, Rhohavian foot....

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:25 pm 
Kinsman
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is it possible to use magic while in combat?
:? :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:34 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Hi Karvag. The game has phases: roll for priority (who goes first each phase, unless hero abilities interrupt) -> both sides move -> both sides shoot -> both sides charge -> both sides fight in melee -> both sides separate and then a new turn begins.

You do the spells in the move phase and units do not stay locked in melee combat. So you will never be in combat while casting the spell, though some spells are in effect during combat.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:44 pm 
Kinsman
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Xelee, how do you go about screening/protecting a guy like Bhurdur? I know what you're going to say - he's not some puny Rohirric hero, he needs no protection, haha - but seriously, is it a concern at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:05 pm 
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I love elves.Especially the high ones but most the galahrdim.I believe their strongest advantage is their terror rule in all units,also good is their high courage value.But the pathfinders master rules.i believe there disadvantage sin their strength with all companies being 3 exect rumil formation.Also they dont have two handed weapons and siege weapons.
My rating 4
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:08 pm 
Wayfarer
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Sorry i didnt saw angmar.SO em angmar.
Advantages lot of terror,lot of magic,many spirits
Disadvanatges few options,only three epic heroes so you havent again many options to choose leader expect if you take Buhrdur and Gulavhar.
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Oj yes and i rate them 3
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:42 pm 
Kinsman
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thx bud
:yay: 8) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :-D :-D :D :D 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:34 pm 
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but what if you are left in combat after last turn? surely then your in combat in the movement phase
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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:43 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
Xelee, how do you go about screening/protecting a guy like Bhurdur? I know what you're going to say - he's not some puny Rohirric hero, he needs no protection, haha - but seriously, is it a concern at all?

He is a monster with not especcially high defense -even bow can get him on 6s at close range! He totally needs protecting. :)

He operates on pretty much the same principle as the Rohan Rider cav, most of the time. As long as he doesn''t get concentrated on, he is fine. He is pretty mobile - 16" double move, so he will often buddy up with an infantry unit and then work on getting around flanks. So what you end up with is a threat that usually doesn't die from stray hist and just keeps hitting the rear/flank of a few units while they try to cope with Carn Dum warband from the front. Epic Strength and heroic fight is pretty mean too. I've no doubt he'd still die horribly to marching and heroic shooting crossbow though!
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Advantages lot of terror,lot of magic,many spirits

You have have to be careful there. Spirits can be a bit of a trap - they are very expensive for what they do in this game. So you want to carefully plan how you are going to use them and what combos to employ.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:22 am 
Loremaster
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Thanks Xelee for giving the majority of your input, now how about this:

Image


:gandalf: :frodo: Topic of the Week :sam: :saruman
Factions
Forgotten Kingdoms

Mainly used as allied support. How do the companies from this list help augment an existing army? What's the good, the bad, & the ugly of this "faction". Give a rating on 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:53 pm 
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I think the best thing about the fallen realms, is the ability to add monsters and wizards to armies that ordinarily could not take them (Gondor, Rohan)
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