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 Post subject: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:07 am 
Craftsman
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By idea fell beast seems like cheap dragon with magic... But does fell beast rly work well on melee? Or is it better for giving vicibility and speed to nazgul-mage. Will arrows kill it easy? Could witch king with morgul blade be good on fellbeast? Which named Ringwraith is best on fb?
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:11 pm 
Craftsman
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Yes, it is the most undercosted monster in the game. Nazguls are really good on Fellbeast. I would pick a combat wraight for the maximum potential like the Witch king, Khamul or the knight of Umbar.

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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:50 pm 
Kinsman
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Yes - wraiths on fellbeasts are very powerful. And they tend to be synergistic with each other, so while 1 wraith on a fellbeast is nasty, 3 on fellbeasts are very very tough to play against.

The common 500 point list seems to be Knight of Umbar, Khamul and an "unnamed" wraith (to keep it at 500).

For 800, the WK is usually added, and Shelob appears to be a common ally. Yes - arm the WK with the Morgul Blade. It's a potential one shot kill against a multi-wound opponent.

Keep the wraiths relatively close together to take advantage of their special rules that regain (or not lose) Will.
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Are Fell Beasts good? Are pine trees green? Fell Beasts are, as has been pointed out above. I normally take the Undying on Fell Beast as he stays alive a long time. Though The Knight of Umbar, Khamul, Witch-King and possible Dark Marshal are great choices for a more combat-friendly Fell Beast.

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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:05 pm 
Craftsman
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Well. Khamul's ability basically would just add 1 fight value... Doesn't seem very useful... I doupt these wounds are enough to justify the regaining will?

Umbar seems powerful. Could engage even balrog or anything... WK seems good too. Undying seems ok.

Shadowlord, why none has mentioned the SHADOWLORD? It would make enemy archers unable to kill the flying, everywhere-vicible beast? How can fellbeast otherwise stay on air, when elves or rangers shoot non-stop?

Tainted seems very trolly. Is tainted any good? It might be rly powerful against low-courage enemies not having shamans (fury)? Though, it should save himself's existence till late game so fellbeast no good?
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:20 pm 
Craftsman
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Is the idea to use it as melee killer only against heroes or very valuable enemy units, and not at all against normal units?

Should the ringwraith be saved till lategame and for example idle doing nothing if needed, to reduce enemy courage and giving leadership to own units? Or would it be bad choice to sacrofice wraith during early to mid game for ok, but not superior kills?
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:07 pm 
Loremaster
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With the brutal power attacks of monsters and the magic of the Nazgûl, you can near enough go after anything you want. If an enemy hero or banner bearer is exposed, transfix and charge. If they are not, compel them away from friends, then charge. A lot of enemy troops instead? Find a good place to attack, then hurl your target through his friends. Just ensure you don't isolate yourself, as while it may be tempting to fly over the enemy lines to take down a valuable model, the enemy may just mob you and take you down in return.

Although you should be careful of archery, it's a limited threat - obviously take cover on the approach, but with the fast movement of the flying mount, the enemy may just have a single turn of shooting before you've reached them.

Depending on your force, you will normally definitely want to keep your Nazgûl until the end of the game - for Evil models, they have terrific courage (especially if you still have some Will left), and the -1 penalty for enemies is equally handy.
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:23 pm 
Kinsman
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Salattu wrote:
Well. Khamul's ability basically would just add 1 fight value... Doesn't seem very useful... I doupt these wounds are enough to justify the regaining will?


The primary reason people bring Khamul is because he regains a point of Will for each Wound he causes. Meaning that he doesn't have a limited number of fights available. The increase in S, F or Att can be used or not, but adding another attack, along with the Fell beast gives him 3 Attacks when charging, which along with F5 means he's winning a lot of fights, thus causing wounds, thus regaining Will.


Salattu wrote:
Shadowlord, why none has mentioned the SHADOWLORD? It would make enemy archers unable to kill the flying, everywhere-vicible beast? How can fellbeast otherwise stay on air, when elves or rangers shoot non-stop?


Yes - Shadowlord does make lists as well, precisely because of the rule you stated. Although even without armor, the Fellbeast is D6, 3 wounds, so they can survive a bit. Top 4 typically are Knight of Umbar, Khamul, Shadowlord, WK.


Salattu wrote:
Should the ringwraith be saved till lategame and for example idle doing nothing if needed, to reduce enemy courage and giving leadership to own units? Or would it be bad choice to sacrofice wraith during early to mid game for ok, but not superior kills?


They're not being saved for late game. The fell beasts are Monstrous Cavalry, and as such gain knock down and double strikes (even against other cavalry), but what is often more fierce is the ability to use Brutal Power attacks. Hurl and Rend are horrific. Against standard troops, he can Hurl (throws model 4-9 or 3-8 inches in most cases, dealing S3 hits and knocking prone all in the path - which effectively de-horses most enemy cavalry btw), and against heroes he can Rend (to wound rolls against enemy Str rather than Def).

They stay out of charge range, wait til they lose priority, then use their 12" move to charge (even against cavalry), then Hurl (or Rend). Entire battle lines can be wiped out in a single turn. Those that survive are still prone. And the wraiths are more likely to win priority next turn. It's just a horrifying combination when you're facing 3 of them in a 500 point game.
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:48 am 
Loremaster
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Fell Beasts are the epitome of power gaming.

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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:03 am 
Craftsman
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Khamul can boos his own fight, attack or strenght value by one... Fellbeast has all stats same or better than Khamul. To me it seems that Khamul cannot boost fellbeast's fight, attack or strenght value by one, only his own?

This ability to gain will is cool. But Khamul has still got only 1 wound, so sooner or later it will die... Perhaps Khamul could afford use more dices on spells than other nazgul to compensate harder spells? Khamul looks probably the best of all ringwraith (on foot) but seems more lucky based than others.

Umbar seems especially strong nazgul both on foot or on horse or on fellbeast. Is there any situation where shadowlord would be better choice (against elves, rangers, rohan... which enemies have best arrows?)?
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 Post subject: Re: Fellbeast any good?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:47 pm 
Kinsman
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Salattu wrote:
Khamul can boos his own fight, attack or strenght value by one... Fellbeast has all stats same or better than Khamul. To me it seems that Khamul cannot boost fellbeast's fight, attack or strenght value by one, only his own?


That's correct, so yes - that benefit isn't particularly relevant on a Fellbeast.


Salattu wrote:
This ability to gain will is cool. But Khamul has still got only 1 wound, so sooner or later it will die... Perhaps Khamul could afford use more dices on spells than other nazgul to compensate harder spells? Khamul looks probably the best of all ringwraith (on foot) but seems more lucky based than others.


Also correct, and yes - targeting the wraith is a valid strategy. But remember, Khamul is Def 8, has 2 Fate, and for shooting attacks, the Fellbeast is considered in the way on 1-4, not the usual 1-3, because it's a Monstrous Cavalry. So while a valid strategy (maybe the best strategy), it's still not easy.

Salattu wrote:
Umbar seems especially strong nazgul both on foot or on horse or on fellbeast. Is there any situation where shadowlord would be better choice (against elves, rangers, rohan... which enemies have best arrows?)?


Valid considerations. Knight of Umbar is more of a combat wraith because he can increase Fight and Attacks to match opponents (on the Fellbeast, he'd just always use the beast's Str). Shadowlord offers better Defense because of Darkness, and has lower casting scores, so is a better spellcaster. If you know what you're up against, it's valid to weigh the tradeoffs.
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