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 Post subject: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:48 pm 
Kinsman
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Hey all,

Recently getting back in to lord of the rings - big fan at the moment of making fluffy armies from the books/films, with just enough useful stuff thrown in to make it somewhat viable tactically.

Anyway, latest thing to cross my mind is trying to make a list based on aragorn's forces at the Black Gate, and I was wondering if you guys could make some suggestions/example lists, (as I'm stumped!)

Basically I want a mash up of Minas Tirith and Rohan, with as many of the named heroes who were at the battle as possible without it becoming a totally unwinnable army tactically. Only real requirement is aragorn himself to be honest, (and I'm happy to use the strider version with armour and a sword), but otherwise, could you guys provide me with either some example lists at 600 or 800, or maybe some tips on what to get? :)

Thanks!

EDIT: I should say also, I'm happy to use Gandalf the grey instead of the white, due to the reduced points cost, and the inclusion of sorcerous blast.

EDIT 2: Here's an example 800 list I put together to get the ball rolling actually. What do you think?

Warband 1 (Fellowship):
Aragorn/Strider - Armour
Gandalf the Grey

Warband 2:
Beregond
10 Fountain Court Guard with Shields

Warband 3:
Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark, shield
12 Rohan Warriors with Shields

Warband 4:
Captain of Minas Tirith, Shield
6 WOMT - shields
6 WOMT - spears

39 models, break point 20, total M = 12
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:33 pm 
Kinsman
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I like the idea!

Couple of problems I can see, no ranged capacity and limited mobility.
In regards to that list I'd get Aragorn and Eomer on horses to up the killing power, and maybe change out a few guys for some rohan outriders perhaps?

Probably one of the hardest lists to make because there's so much cool stuff to throw in there :sad:
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:18 pm 
Kinsman
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Gshaw wrote:
I like the idea!

Couple of problems I can see, no ranged capacity and limited mobility.
In regards to that list I'd get Aragorn and Eomer on horses to up the killing power, and maybe change out a few guys for some rohan outriders perhaps?

Probably one of the hardest lists to make because there's so much cool stuff to throw in there :sad:


Thanks for the feedback!

Regarding shooting, I really wasn't sure where to go here. Previously I've always found it to be a bit... I dunno... Lacklustre? I thought perhaps a better option might be to take a good shooty hero like leglolas. Someone who can hit quite well, and kill the odd hero's mount, wizard, etc etc. Is that a better option do you think?

I also thought about including gwaihir or something like that for monster support, you had any experience with him?
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 pm 
Kinsman
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Shooting can definitely be lacklustre but if your opponent has bows and you don't then you're gonna be chasing them all game! Leggy is a good fix for this but you're still gonna need to close on the enemy fast. Don't fancy Leggy's chances against a warband of archers for instance.

Only used eagles a few times and they definitely require a lot of practice to use effectively, but they can be immensely fun. For this list though I'd pass seeing as one will drop you numbers even more!
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:12 am 
Craftsman
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Black Gate themed lists can be be fun to build, as there are just so many choices. One thing that I've found is that you have to decide to build around either King Elessar or Gandalf the White. It's really tough to try to fit it both in a competitive style list under 1000pts. And using Strider and/or Gandalf the Grey really knocks the idea of theme down a few pegs, so I'd pick one and go with that model as your leader.

Here's a fun and fairly competitive 800 pt list, using the Movie's participants as opposed to the book's participants.


King Elessar, armored Hourse
8 Guards of the Fountain Court with shields

Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel
4 Rangers of Gondor with Spear

Eomer, Knight of the Pelennor, armored horse
6 Warriors of Rohan with shield

Meriadoc, Knight of the Mark
6 Warriors of Rohan with shield

Legolas, armour
Gimli

I think that totals in just a hair under 800 pts. It's clearly low on overall numbers with only 30 models, but it's got some real hard-hitting tanks in Elessar, Eomer and Gimil, and also a decent amount of shooting with Legolas, the Rangers, and the Hobbits throwing stones. And then you've got about 14 Might plus Elessar's free one every turn, so board control should be in your favor as well as the ability to call some Heroic Combats and even out the numbers a bit by taking out batches of the enemy at once.

Again, it's not optimized and there's no magic, but it should be really fun to play and it's really 'theme-ey'.

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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:47 am 
Kinsman
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ja33 wrote:
Black Gate themed lists can be be fun to build, as there are just so many choices. One thing that I've found is that you have to decide to build around either King Elessar or Gandalf the White. It's really tough to try to fit it both in a competitive style list under 1000pts. And using Strider and/or Gandalf the Grey really knocks the idea of theme down a few pegs, so I'd pick one and go with that model as your leader.

Here's a fun and fairly competitive 800 pt list, using the Movie's participants as opposed to the book's participants.


King Elessar, armored Hourse
8 Guards of the Fountain Court with shields

Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel
4 Rangers of Gondor with Spear

Eomer, Knight of the Pelennor, armored horse
6 Warriors of Rohan with shield

Meriadoc, Knight of the Mark
6 Warriors of Rohan with shield

Legolas, armour
Gimli

I think that totals in just a hair under 800 pts. It's clearly low on overall numbers with only 30 models, but it's got some real hard-hitting tanks in Elessar, Eomer and Gimil, and also a decent amount of shooting with Legolas, the Rangers, and the Hobbits throwing stones. And then you've got about 14 Might plus Elessar's free one every turn, so board control should be in your favor as well as the ability to call some Heroic Combats and even out the numbers a bit by taking out batches of the enemy at once.

Again, it's not optimized and there's no magic, but it should be really fun to play and it's really 'theme-ey'.


Thanks for the list! You've got some interesting choices in there, particularly in using the King version over regular aragorn. Couple of things I wanted to ask you here actually:

1) King Aragorn and Gandalf the White. Although they are more themey, do you think they're necessarily more competitive choices than their cheaper versions? I mean to take Gandalf as an example, although the white version casts spells a bit better, he loses sorcerous blast which is a really useful spell. Aragorn I can sorta see the point in taking the king version, as pretty much all you're paying for is Anduril, but even so, it's a huge points increase for it.

2) The hobbits, are they just included for theme, or do they have a role to perform? I can see how the extra M would be useful, but the additional points cost that could be spent upgrading the guys in the warbands, maybe less so.

Incidentally guys, I play-tested some of my lists today to see how it went, vs an Azog's legion list with both Azog and Bolg on wargs, a troll, and some other gundabad orcs. Long story short although I lost both, it was actually great fun despite some crappy rolls!

I have however wondered about finding a way to run all the proper named heroes instead of the cheaper versions, and perhaps even going full hero instead, similar to the scene in the films where Aragorn and co. approach the black gate.

What do we think of:

Aragorn, King version on Armoured Horse

Gandalf the White on Shadowfax

Eomer (Marshal) on Horse

Legolas on Horse

Gimli (who will jump on legolas' horse at the start of the game)

1 knight of minas tirith

in total it comes to just short of 800. What do you think of that? Anything close to competitive?
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:41 pm 
Craftsman
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OK, first off, I'd say that the Strider profile and the Gandalf the Grey profile would be considered by almost everyone to be more 'competitive' than the King Elessar and Gandalf the White profiles, respectively. You'd only be taking the higher point profiles for theme reasons only.

Secondly, the all hero list is not a bad idea, but I'd probably drop the Knight and load up all your heroes with every piece of equipment you can give them - horses, armor, shields, cloaks - whatever you can fit it to make them as buff as possible. That knight would only increase your likelihood of breaking as you wouldn't be able to protect him with such a small list and he'd be a target for sure.

I'd still prefer to use a list that is a mix of 'theme-y' heroes and a group of warriors. Here's an edited list to what I posted earlier, dropping Merry and Gimli and adding a bunch more warriors...

King Elessar, armored Hourse
6 Guards of the Fountain Court with shields
3 Rangers of Gondor with Spear

Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel
6 Guards of the Fountain Court with shields
3 Rangers of Gondor with Spear

Eomer, Knight of the Pelennor, armored horse
10 Warriors of Rohan with shields

Legolas, armour

Think that is right about 800 pts, I believe....and gets your numbers up to 32 total models...or you could drop Leggy, fill up your warbands completely and get up 39 total models....

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But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her..
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 Post subject: Re: Help making a fluffy black gate good list?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:29 pm 
Kinsman
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May I just add that Gandalf the White does not lose Sorcerous Blast, it is in the free peoples FAQ. Also he gains a 12" stand fast! making his higher points more understandable.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... v1.3-1.pdf
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