By the Book - new wiki

Old Chestnut · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:26 pm

Quote:

Cunning:
“At that moment some dozen Orcs that had lain motionless among the slain leaped to their feet, and came silently and swiftly behind…” – The Two Towers
If the model loses a Fight, he may elect to fall down. He counts as prone for Wounding, but if he survives he can get up and make an immediate roll to Wound at S1.

If a orc and an orc supporting with spear loose combat can they both fall down? Will both get to hop back up and make an attack? It is an interesting idea. Why strength 1?
Would it possibly better to say they have to make a courage test to get up and back stab? :idea:

I think I will try it both ways. I like the bat shade too :!:

whafrog · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:35 pm

Old Chestnut wrote:

Quote:

One note: it is unlikely Tolkien would have agreed with the concept of Dwarf Rangers, these profiles should not be used.

I don't strongly disagree. Something needs to be done for Dwarf adventures or prospectors.You have already mentioned the Hobbit. I would suggest a standard stat line with options.

That's a good idea. It's really just the 3+ shooting that bugs me (unless it's a hero).

Quote:

How do you feel about crossbows?

I know Tolkien didn't mention them, which makes it a problem for Uruk-hai. One of the things I'm trying to balance is finding a way for people to use their existing models, but Uruks may get shafted on this one.

whafrog · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:37 pm

Elros of Numenor wrote:

I had a quick look and it looks good. I've also joined

I'm interested in helping, whether playtesting or suggesting changes, whatever.

I like how you've made rohan less wimpy, for example allowing the horses to defend themselves

and also not making elves better at riding horses

. Grimbold looks like a lot of fun to play.

Thanks...was that you requesting to join? I saw "corncracker95" but no message saying who you were, so I figured it was a joke...the name sounds like a sexual euphemism...or I just have a dirty mind :-D

If you try again I'll approve it.

whafrog · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:40 pm

Old Chestnut wrote:

If a orc and an orc supporting with spear loose combat can they both fall down?

No, the spear support is not in the fight, I don't want to break those basic rules.

Quote:

It is an interesting idea. Why strength 1?

Thanks, the S1 is because they already have backstab and a bunch of other options, I didn't want it overpowered. But I haven't had a lot of time to playtest, so S2 could work, especially because since they're prone they'll be a lot more likely to die.

Old Chestnut · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:55 pm

Quote:

Thanks, the S1 is because they already have backstab and a bunch of other options, I didn't want it overpowered. But I haven't had a lot of time to playtest, so S2 could work, especially because since they're prone they'll be a lot more likely to die.

I think there should be a risk to try it. But if it works it should work well. I have not read every thing but I liked what I saw. Play testing will smooth out any ruff edges.

Quote:

(If you must, substitute crossbow: although I think the Professor would grimace at the presence of crossbows in Middle-earth

I always thought so too.I don't know where the crossbow reference is. It may be as obscure as the justification for plate armor. Or it might not exist at all. I have not seen it.

Elros of Numenor · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:29 am

You definitely have a dirty mind :-D

....And that was me, so I'll try again.

Thanks.

Elros of Numenor · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:18 am

So my friend and I are planning a little playtest-game this weekend with rohan and mordor. Should be interesting.....

any points limit or scenario suggestions?

Hilbert · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:40 am

An 500 points amtch would be oaky and a clssic scenario where they evil attack a rohan village should be good for testplaying...

Elros of Numenor · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:32 am

Okay thanks. I should be able to take some photos and maybe make a battle report. We'll see what happens.

whafrog · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:20 am

Dwarf Rangers added...

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:16 pm

Might I suggest giving all Dwarves (if not, then certainly Khazad Guard and Heroes) the "Chop!" special rule that the Merchant Guard of Abrakhan have? It's flavourful, and they deserve it a hell of a lot more than some tubby, made up Haradrim do...

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:04 am

I'm hesitant to gives Dwarves more, they're already quite balanced. Also, Dwarves were strong for their size, but not as strong as Men (though they still get S3 as far as combat goes). Gimli notably stayed out of the fray with the Dunlendings at Helm's Deep. So I don't know how it could be justified for warriors. They already get 2H weapons for free, and several heroes get an equivalent rule.

I don't actually mind the Abrakhan guard, it's a reasonable fit culturally.

whafrog · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Easterlings - what to do?

I'm gearing up to work on Harad and Easterlings, and after reading more about what Tolkien wrote, it doesn't seem the GW Easterlings fit Tolkien's Easterlings at all. The Khand warriors are decently represented, at least as far as models go (axemen, bowmen, horse bows and chariots), but the Variags are described more like the models used for Dunlendings. Lots of axes and beards.

Basically there is little support for a regimented phalanx-type force from "the east". However, it could work for Harad, as part of their elite force. It's important to note that Harad, like Gondor, was a Numenorian colony, with all the power and history that suggests. Harad was subjugated by Numenor and Gondor in turn; Gondor's realm included Umbar for many centuries. It was only after the Kin-strife civil war that it was permanently lost, and became the seat of Gondorian exiles, themselves more purely of Numenorian descent than the subsequent leaders of Gondor.

So we have undisciplined hordes of wild men from the east, and more disciplined warriors from Harad.

One of the primary goals of the By the Book rules is to preserve the use of existing models. Therefore, I'm thinking of shuffling things around: Easterlings would represent the tougher more disciplined Haradrim, some of whom would have Numenorian heritage options like Gondor. Existing paint schemes for Easterlings (scarlet) also fits with what Tolkien wrote about Harad. So we'd end up with:

Easterlings:
Khamul
Khand - existing models (including chariots), possibly also Harad Raiders to allow for more horse bows
Variags - armoured Dunlendings

Harad:
Umbar - current Easterling models as the core, unarmed bows and spear armed peasant levies (current Harad models), kataphracts and serpent guard, Corsairs, Mumak
Harad - existing Harad models, Mumak, no reassigned Easterlings. The inventions (like Watchers of Karna) can stand
Far Harad - as current (for models)

Can anyone think of objections to this plan? I'm not sure where else to put Easterlings...

Colosseum · **Joined:** Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:38 am **Posts:** 54

This is great! I just started re-reading the books and am really enjoying them.

I agree about Peter Jackson's depiction of the Warriors of Minas Tirith... they seem utterly incompetent throughout the films, and I too was wondering "how the hell have these guys held Mordor at bay for so long?!" The defense of Minas Tirith was always particularly disheartening; I had always envisioned the WoMT as competent front-line troops who could more than hold their own against orcs, but lost out purely to numbers. I envisioned a siege scene more like the siege of Jerusalem at the end of Kingdom of Heaven rather than the nonsense in Return of the King. In my mind the WoMT would have inflicted enormous casualties on the assaulting orcs, easily attaining a 5 to 1 KD ratio (to use CoD terms...), but eventually they would be swamped with attackers and be forced to retreat etc.

They seem to be as tough as the Moria Goblins in the movies... which isn't saying much.

whafrog · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:22 pm

Colosseum wrote:

I envisioned a siege scene more like the siege of Jerusalem at the end of Kingdom of Heaven rather than the nonsense in Return of the King. In my mind the WoMT would have inflicted enormous casualties on the assaulting orcs, easily attaining a 5 to 1 KD ratio (to use CoD terms...), but eventually they would be swamped with attackers and be forced to retreat etc.

Haven't seen the KoH movie, but yes, a 5:1 ratio would be more accurate. Trying to make that work with these rules would be impossible though since the power grade is pretty flat. It would require a whole new set of rules that probably would involve paperwork, not to mention all the Evil players would complain about how much more they have to spend to enjoy the hobby

Colosseum · **Joined:** Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:38 am **Posts:** 54

You should definitely watch it... not only is it an excellent film but the siege scene at the end is amazing.

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:02 pm

Quote:

You should definitely watch it... not only is it an excellent film but the siege scene at the end is amazing.

Good film but The Warlord is more appropriate to skirmish games and a must see :!:

http://charltonhestonforums.freeforums. ... d-t25.html
Link to part of tower storm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi7x6RDkcak&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138nKtFtx7g

Elros of Numenor · **Posted:** Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:46 am

Bump.

I think we need some playtesting for this thing. Could people please hae a look at the rules and try and give the rules a go next time they play. :pray:

Hilbert · **Posted:** Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:06 am

This thread seem very intresting... Has it stopped? :roll:

whafrog · **Posted:** Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:57 pm

No, I just haven't had time to get to the Fallen Realms yet. But I think I'm going to continue with what I outlined a couple messages up, unless someone has other ideas.

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