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 Post subject: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:22 pm 
Elven Warrior
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So Nova is over, I heard that the GBHL team achieves the top positions.
So...
Any chance getting some info of the winning lists?
I am not asking the exact lists so some braindeads go copy them and become some kind of viral. I just want an idea of what people use in the big tournaments. For example is the fell beast still viable, I heard one brought that list. What else..?
In EVERY other game those lists become public...
Just to understand the current meta in the game..

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:22 am 
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You're best bet or that kind of info would be to message the DCHL directly, either here or on Facebook, and ask them about it. The videos that the GBHL and OSBGL put together will likely have a showing of lists too. But I would not hold my breath for any publications anytime soon as I don't think they kept the lists, since they were on paper and all.

I will say that there was a very high concentration of Fell Beasts throughout. Several variations on Rivendell Knight lists, some mostly flying monster lists, and overall a lot of hero/magic heavy builds. The Brits flattened most everyone again with a wood elf list, an Isenguard berserker list and a Rivendell Knight army (I forgot what the forth one was) so whatever most people where doing it didn't work out so well.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:30 am 
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Yeah I'd be interested to see the lists of like the top 10ish or so players. If you do find them please post!

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:15 am 
Elven Warrior
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Wan Shi Tong wrote:
You're best bet or that kind of info would be to message the DCHL directly, either here or on Facebook, and ask them about it.

They are always silent about that, they just ignore if you are not someone well known to them. This is ridiculous and a very bad aspect to wargaming happening only in this one.


Wan Shi Tong wrote:
The videos that the GBHL and OSBGL put together will likely have a showing of lists too. But I would not hold my breath for any publications anytime soon as I don't think they kept the lists, since they were on paper and all.

This is the only one I hope for, just a general and quick image of the armies.


Wan Shi Tong wrote:
I will say that there was a very high concentration of Fell Beasts throughout. Several variations on Rivendell Knight lists, some mostly flying monster lists, and overall a lot of hero/magic heavy builds. The Brits flattened most everyone again with a wood elf list, an Isenguard berserker list and a Rivendell Knight army (I forgot what the forth one was) so whatever most people where doing it didn't work out so well.


Yup. very nice thank you for typing them down. The only new here since the "meta" of the previous years, is the rivendell knight list. I've heard of many people about it. I am not familiar with the list, so in a few words what is this list using/comboing/taking advantage of?

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:19 pm 
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- high defence/standart wise knights with shield/sword lance.
- Flexible with speed and elven shooting (ignores the limitation of the bow %)
- Got expensive but CC control heroes.
- Perfectly suits you in with Gil Galad and use the knights as bodyguards
- take advantage of Wizards on horse to help support the line (hence why the list had Gandalf the Grey mtd - blinding light, Will support, anti magic.

However it´s a list that dont let you commit many mistakes and badly played round can cost you quite a bunch, for in average a knight to worth its cost he needs to kill 1/2 a turn everytime or least make it worth is payback on tactical flexibility.... you can´t waste time on choosing where to go inthe field....

This list ain´t much about unit´s combination, its just heroes combination basically like any other list you would do, the knights just offers you bodies, extra hitting power and capable fighters to tag along with your fast moving heroes.

Its a simple and very nice list to do but hard to master.
About the list composition goes around this (more or so for what you see out there).

- 1 or 2 powerfull heroes on horse (Gil Galad, Elrond, Glorfindel), can take aragorn and others but then non Elrond tend to use alternative captains to let you fill up the groups or a bit cheaper Lindir.

- 1 heroe 2nd in command: pretty much to let you add more knights so either decent melee captain (bit cheaper overall than the rivendell/eregion wargear elven captain with same gear and without lance option). Alternatively Lindir as despite hes mostly effective with Elrond, he does give you some tricks to enhance your anti magic defences... it tunes pretty well with Gil Galad for example...

- Generally 2 groups of 6 knights or more..... thats what I normally saw out there, sometimes people take alot, others take fewer, but I think its in the bettewn where the best number is at.... cause sometimes deployment all within 6" of a heroe can be nasty and if you get 2 many knights its basically telling them to start the game rubbing elbows (and what can happen if some 1 steal your priority and nature´s wrath all that...)

- banner is an option but normally I see least one, its a list that cannot afford many mistakes, and losing fights can be nasty, those re-rolls come very handy..

- Support character: this one its reserved pretty much to mounted wizards.. Most common are either Gandalf the Grey (for a balanced defence/offense wizard), with some Will points returning spells on his sleeve and the handy blinding light, or Radagast the Brown, a defensive kind of wizard, either good to cause mayhem with paralizing stuff or the very handy "spooky mounts spell" which is nasty if he manage to make a Fellbeast flee or Azog´s warg and such.... on this one you can even bring his on Eagle... though not an horse, his nature´s wrath on top of a monster can prove deadly and quite usefull for your knight´s.
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:10 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Thank you so much for this Galanur!!

Did you participate in this event? My memory is muddy but I think you are from Usa that's why I ask.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:25 pm 
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I think most of the knight lists just take captains, a wizard and as many knight as they can fit in.I know GBHL James takes Megolas as well. I think they're considered particularly good for the Nova scenarios and boards since they're pretty big with a lot of them require movement or at least flexibility. The knight have the strengths of say wood elves, with kiting, high fight, good shooting, but also if they can charge are a lot more likely to wound and have the added speed. The lances also make them a lot better against the hordes Gondor or Mordor armies with reasonable high defense that I wood elves struggle with. I feel like they're really good but you have to be able to do a lot of damage with your first couple charges and make sure your positioning is good otherwise they'll go down pretty quick and since you're pretty low numbers if you get bogged down fighting you're probably in trouble.

I've got a couple boxes of knight and Elrond I am working on painting cause obvious Elrond should go with the knights! Elrond so cool lol.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:22 pm 
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Valadorn wrote:
Thank you so much for this Galanur!!

Did you participate in this event? My memory is muddy but I think you are from Usa that's why I ask.



Nah I ain´t from USA, I´m from Portugal :P

And polywags is correct, majority just fit in regular captains..

Although these are also common options to take along with them:

Gil Galad
Elrond
Lindir
Elladan and Elrohir
Gandalf
Radagast
Saruman
Legolas

Odd as it sounds, Haven´t seen thranduil that often on these lists...


An even less common sight its the following combination (at large point system like 850pts)

Rivendell knight Cap
Lindir on horse
around 17 knights (2 banners)
Elladan and Elrohir h.armour, horse and all
4 Dunedain on horse
Gandalf the Grey on horse

Its not a common sight due to the Rangers, but its an highly might point list and flexible...

Gandalf uses the Might mostly for channeled magic and rolls
Lindir offer magic resistance support
Rivn captain do for the normal thing
Twins for the sheer killing power
Dunedain are mostly given the task of Snatching priority rolls, counter charging, heroic marches and such to keep the army highly mobile and trying to get you into the strong position most of the times. (as these are almost at the same cost as the knights)... nothing wrong paying a few more for precious might point cheap bags :P

This list also can be made at fewer points as well though...
But we got quite a decent amount of models and ALOT might...
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:26 am 
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Valadorn wrote:
They are always silent about that, they just ignore if you are not someone well known to them. This is ridiculous and a very bad aspect to wargaming happening only in this one.


Short time lurker, first time poster here, I just thought I should clear this up.

DCHL Devin runs the channel as well as the page and corresponding website for the DCHL alone. On top of this he also has a job and runs the LotR NOVA events alone, which is ridiculously time consuming. Point is, if he hasn't responded to something, it's probably because he missed it. It's possible even that it's a topic he planned to address in a video. It definitely isn't a slight towards you. Sorry for any misunderstanding mate.
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:23 am 
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That's a super cool list.. I wanna make that for sure. 1000 points you can add Aragorn.. :)

back to topic, there were a few posts about the lists on the GBHL facebook page. One of the top lists was an all hero good lists, with Radghast on sleigh, Eagles and.. something else maybe Gwahir? I can't remember. There was also another Isengard list, more traditional, pike block, some wargs.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:38 pm 
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cole wrote:
Valadorn wrote:
They are always silent about that, they just ignore if you are not someone well known to them. This is ridiculous and a very bad aspect to wargaming happening only in this one.


Short time lurker, first time poster here, I just thought I should clear this up.

DCHL Devin runs the channel as well as the page and corresponding website for the DCHL alone. On top of this he also has a job and runs the LotR NOVA events alone, which is ridiculously time consuming. Point is, if he hasn't responded to something, it's probably because he missed it. It's possible even that it's a topic he planned to address in a video. It definitely isn't a slight towards you. Sorry for any misunderstanding mate.


I've literally never had trouble getting in touch with Devin....he's very good at prompt communication imho
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:27 pm 
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Galanur wrote:
An even less common sight its the following combination (at large point system like 850pts)

Rivendell knight Cap
Lindir on horse
around 17 knights (2 banners)
Elladan and Elrohir h.armour, horse and all
4 Dunedain on horse
Gandalf the Grey on horse


Sweet, I wonna test this list, seems challenging!


cole wrote:
DCHL Devin runs the channel as well as the page and corresponding website for the DCHL alone. On top of this he also has a job and runs the LotR NOVA events alone, which is ridiculously time consuming. Point is, if he hasn't responded to something, it's probably because he missed it. It's possible even that it's a topic he planned to address in a video. It definitely isn't a slight towards you. Sorry for any misunderstanding mate.


Let me make clear that I didn't meant DCHL sideways for not providing information about army building but the community who participates often on large tournaments. I think that if they open themselves then this knowledge will help the hobby and not bring them down from their positions. A good work was done with the (until #2) free SBG magazine where some gave advice but that was so little in front of what it could be done.

Also let me express an opinion. There are three billions batreps out there. Although almost none about competitive wargaming regarding to the Lotr Sbg. It could be better!

By the way yeah I watch Devin on youtube he seems a cool guy I like the way he handles things and respect his efforts for the hobby.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Valadorn wrote:

Let me make clear that I didn't meant DCHL sideways for not providing information about army building but the community who participates often on large tournaments. I think that if they open themselves then this knowledge will help the hobby and not bring them down from their positions. A good work was done with the (until #2) free SBG magazine where some gave advice but that was so little in front of what it could be done.

Also let me express an opinion. There are three billions batreps out there. Although almost none about competitive wargaming regarding to the Lotr Sbg. It could be better!



Fair enough. Devin and I had talked about filming a hyper competitive batrep, but they can be quite time consuming to edit and he had a lot of NOVA prep on his plate.

You're absolutely right though, for players not actively participating in tournaments, the meta can be quite hard to crack. I'm actually about to launch a new series on the DCHL YouTube channel based around small, focused topics and the first one is going to be about community size and how it impacts meta I think! That should be ready sometime in the next couple weeks.

I'll tell you what, next time I win a DCHL tournament, I will post a detailed report. Ill be sure to include an army list and details of each of the games I played (deployment, strategies, opponents lists) as best I can remember :). I assure you that most competitive players are not trying to hide their secrets, we are quite happy to share. Its just that most times after a tournament I throw my list away, and I don't really take note of what everyone else brings.
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Oooh, forgot to mention.

When I run Rivendell Knights at 500 points my list is:

Knight Captain with Shield
11 knights with shield

Saruman with horse
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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:59 pm 
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Also remember that the NoVa scenarios are unique, very different not only from an objective standpoint but also at assigning points based on those objectives. There was a lot of area control in this set of scenarios, at least two of the five were area control type scenarios. Having a strong leader was not really needed, a weak one, protected well would have been fine.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:56 pm 
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Alright guys theres a lot of crazy convo going on in this topic. Wan Shi Tongs first post was dead on. Anyways....

I was at Nova and let me throw my hat in the ring....

The top lists you can almost already see by vlogs and by such.
We already know there was a Knights of Rivendell with Gandalf and Legolas. We already know just as last year there was an Isengard list with all elites and x bows. In addition, there is always the same lists with wood elves including things like Galadriels, Rumils, Thranduils, Legolas's etc. There are always fell beast armies. I know there was another knights of rivendell and high elves, a Mordor spam I believe, and Arnor with Boromir and Twins. These are what I remember being top 10 minus a few I DONT remember.


Another list....let me make a huge point here because I could believe this was the hardest to use, you can see on the OSBGL(did I get that right?) vlog. I give many props and this is the only guy I will name directly because he put it in his vlog so obviously. Thats Adam from Canada and his list was something like Gwahir, Eagles, Radagast with sleigh, and Galadriel.

Thats MOST of what I know from the event. But Adams army to me shows my point, in my opinion.....

That is a VERY tough army to place with having maybe 6 units or something like that, yet he still got 4th I believe, and with a couple of dice rolls probably could have placed higher.

The point is guys, its fun to know these armies, but its the player knowing how to play them that wins games.

The top three guys came with nearly identical armies to last year and with different scenarios still whooped people. Its knowing the game, and knowing your army, not list.


I placed 14th because of some insane dice rolls in a game and some army matchups. I could have made it further up possibly but I ended the last game super fast because I had some personal business to attend to.

Regardless, I brought a tough list and I hadnt played it before(hadnt played this exact combo).

So a couple things to say. #1-Ill type up my army list(just to get another idea of something you might play.
#2-Cheers to all the guys in the top ten. Good showing.
#3-I have a final note to talk about.

Mine:
(leader) Undying on fell beast
Witch king on horse 3/14/2
Taskmaster
Shaman on Warg
34 morannons I think 50/50 hand weapon spear. ALL with shield
5 warg riders with shield
spider
Fell warg

Something like that.

I had two major victories, one solid 5-0(weapon of the enemy I had to end early for a phone call), and two minor defeats.
If anyone would like detail on the armies I played, how the games went, etc, please feel free to pm me. I wont type that much here.



So to sum it up, heres basically what I believe is a must or a very good idea at Nova to win games. I mention this because it seems this is what people are after with list questions. These are in kinda of order, but after the first one, it doesnt matter much:

1-Magic magic magic. If you want to win, Id say 99% you need to bring magic. Of the top ten lists, I only know 8 armies. And guess what....8 of them have 1 magician minimum, and a couple have two.

2-Strong heroes. If youre spamming out heroes, most of the time, your army may be hard to defeat but youre not killing everyone else either. Tough heroes are the way to go.

3-Mobility. Not the most essential, but a lot of times if you dont have at least some cavalry its tougher. I believe a couple top ten armies had little mobility but they make up for it with other tricks.

The rest of these are all good, but not mandatory.

4-Elite troops. Just like with heroes, if you spam nobodies, they will probably show you small amounts of things. So you can use run of the mill warriors, but putting in some elite troops minimum is a good bet.

This last one seems like the logic doesnt match but:

5- EITHER killing power or high fight value
Youre either wounding, or constantly winning fights. I wouldnt suggest basic orcs for example or dwarves from Durins folk. Elves are everywhere and so are other elites.

Honorable mention:

Monsters-They seemed tougher last year than this year, but it really depends who uses them. The top 3 lists had none.


Obviously guys thats all my opinion and I didnt quite crack the top ten, so take my words any way you wish. Im honestly a better coach at this than a player.

When it comes down to it though, absolutely need magic, good heroes, and mobility.

That being said, I saw people with similar armies to top 5 guys and they did worse than me.

Its all in matchups, how you play, the board, the scenario, the PLAYER.

I faced one army that I should have crushed and didnt. I faced one that matched up amazingly against me, and I got a major victory. On one board, the terrain cost both my opponent and I vps because of choke points etc.

Any more questions, shoot.

I had a blast a nova anyway and next year I hope to crack the top ten.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:49 pm 
Elven Warrior
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cole wrote:

Fair enough. Devin and I had talked about filming a hyper competitive batrep, but they can be quite time consuming to edit and he had a lot of NOVA prep on his plate.

You're absolutely right though, for players not actively participating in tournaments, the meta can be quite hard to crack. I'm actually about to launch a new series on the DCHL YouTube channel based around small, focused topics and the first one is going to be about community size and how it impacts meta I think! That should be ready sometime in the next couple weeks.

I'll tell you what, next time I win a DCHL tournament, I will post a detailed report. Ill be sure to include an army list and details of each of the games I played (deployment, strategies, opponents lists) as best I can remember :). I assure you that most competitive players are not trying to hide their secrets, we are quite happy to share. Its just that most times after a tournament I throw my list away, and I don't really take note of what everyone else brings.


I agree with what you said and I would be very happy, alongside with many people I suppose to watch the material you are preparing!


But,
then,
LordoftheBrownRing,
came here and...

Image

Thanks mate :D

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Yeah. It's what I do.

Any other questions or did I satisfy your curiosity?

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:01 pm 
Elven Warrior
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LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
The top lists you can almost already see by vlogs and by such.
We already know there was a Knights of Rivendell with Gandalf and Legolas. We already know just as last year there was an Isengard list with all elites and x bows. In addition, there is always the same lists with wood elves including things like Galadriels, Rumils, Thranduils, Legolas's etc. There are always fell beast armies. I know there was another knights of rivendell and high elves, a Mordor spam I believe, and Arnor with Boromir and Twins. These are what I remember being top 10 minus a few I DONT remember.



This is the paragraph I wanted to read, thanks. If you could provide links to what "vlogs" you mean, this should be the end of this topic. I cannot find anything by googling.

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 Post subject: Re: NOVA winning lists (current game "meta")
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:41 pm 
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LOTBR:

Were the wargs useful? I know people have been talking a lot about how much mobility and move speed was for the scenarios for the GT but warg riders especially feel a little weak. Did they work as they were meant or did they feel a little lack luster? Was there anything you would have changed about your list with the info you have now?

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